Guess I'm illegal. I shoot 195g Barnes Expander MZ bullets.

 

Ha, yeah looks like technically you are. This is the level of incompetence that gets normal people fired and blackballed from the industry.

 

Oh, and it has to be larger than 40 cal but shoot buckshot not smaller than No 4? Yeah cause that makes perfect sense….

 

Absolute buffoonery

 

Complain all you want about the folks that make the decisions. They should be prepared to take it. But I have nothing but good things to say about the G&F staff who helped me get that regulation. Professional, prompt, courteous, and stuck with it through multiple attempts to find the most current version. Kudos.

 

I have no doubt they do their very best. They would have to, because it’s impossible to accidentally be that bad. You gotta really be trying hard.

 

Waa, waa, waa. Y'all sound like these college students whining about Palestine. Can't find it on a map, have no specific valid demands, just revel in looking pseudo-intelligent and philanthropic by chanting meaningless rhymes.

Again, go hunt somewhere else and be happier. They give you a 7 layer ice cream sundae and you whine that the cherry on top is too small.

 

That’s like telling a Democrat to move to a red state instead of just voting Republican, after their town has been run into the ground by incompetent morons.

 

Other states are banning lead projectiles and AR just banned copper. I'm not sure if I'm feeling better or worse.

 

I don’t read the reg that way. It’s says and/or hollow point and my copper bullets are hollow point.

 

@JB Weld or anyone else that might have actual information....Why are shotgun slugs, rifled or smoothbore, not legal under this? I fail to see how they aren't an alternative to a modern rifle and definitely do not outperform many straight walls. Id just like to know the reasoning behind it. Deep down I'm not even a fan of this whole thing, but if we shootin straights now, why do slugs not count?

 

The honest answer is because they didn’t think it that far through….because they can’t!

 

I think what is the most irritating is that so much confusion could have been avoided by a simple meeting of actual shooters and hunters to determine the rules, they could have had conclusive and understandable answers ready to go. Someone surely had to think about shotguns through this all, and pistol calibers, and all the other crap people are now having to try and figure out.

Simplify and have answers ready to go. It ain't rocket science.

 

You know a group of hunters and shooters could not have agreed on anything, ha. But you are correct , should have at least got a group together that has had some hands on experience with firearms...Joe

 

Reread it says straight wall centerfire cartridge. A shotgun is straight wall centerfire. and shooting slugs will comply with this wording if not semi Auto.
And another thing, in my experience asking a game warden for clarification is futile. They don't want to answer questions possibly get it wrong and be responsible.

 

Totally agree

 

The whole alternative rifle season name just doesn't have the same manly ring to it as muzzleloader season. Every year, I could count on the women in the office to ask me if I was going muzzleloader hunting over the weekend, I'd suck my gut in and puff out my chest and say, "yep, I'm going muzzleloadin" and there would usually be a younger cuter woman that would have me explain exactly what a muzzleloader was and how to shoot it..........................If they now ask me if I'm going Alternative Rifle Hunting , the first thing they are going to ask is what is it? I really don't know what to say. I guess I'll just refer them to the AG&F Website , hang my head and walk away.

 

Just tell 'em it's part of your "alternative lifestyle".

 

I was still going to shoot 300 grain Barnes expanders in my ML.

 

 

They finally posted on tha AG&F website- copy and pasted-

Legal Hunting Equipment


Alternative Firearms

In addition to traditional muzzleoaders and inline muzzleloaders, the following firearms will be legal:

• Non-semiautomatic firearms capable of firing a straight-walled centerfire rifle catridge of .30 caliber or larger
• Lever-action rifles, single-shot rifles, pump-action rifles and bolt-action rifles (including semi-automatic rifles that have been converted to bolt-action)

Shotguns are not allowed.
Muzzleloading rifles must have a barrel 18 inches or longer and be .40 caliber or larger. Magnifying sights may be used. The use of shot is not legal. Legal muzzleloaders use flint, percussion cap, primer or electronic pulse, must have the bullet loaded through the muzzle and are not capable of firing a cartridge.
Hunters may use muzzleloading handguns with:

• barrels 9 inches or longer
• .45 caliber or larger if they shoot conical bullets (200 grains or heavier), or
• .530 caliber or larger if they shoot round balls.

A hunter may carry a muzzleloading handgun of any caliber as backup to a muzzleloading rifle.
Examples of legal catridges to use:

• 350 Legend
• 360 Buckhammer
• .405 Winchester
• .444 Marlin
• 44 Rem Mag
• 45/70 Government

 

The 200 grain rule is for ML handguns. I'm fine.

Those are not catridges examples. They are cartridge examples.

 

This doesn’t make any sense. @Thenarwhal posted directly from the code book and now the AGFC website has something posted different.
If I’m not mistaken the code book is the actual law and the website or regulations pamphlet is a summary of the law. How does the summary contain restrictions that aren’t in the law?

I’m normally a big supporter of the AGFC but this is asinine.

Just come up with a clear and concise regulation and we’ll follow it but this is ridiculous.

 

This doesn’t make any sense. @Thenarwhal posted directly from the code book and now the AGFC website has something posted different.
If I’m not mistaken the code book is the actual law and the website or regulations pamphlet is a summary of the law. How does the summary contain restrictions that aren’t in the law?

I’m normally a big supporter of the AGFC but this is asinine.

Just come up with a clear and concise regulation and we’ll follow it but this is ridiculous.

Simple, Set your own Rules and Regulations..
And don't bother them with it .. lol..
Can you imagine Checking one in .. Check Alternative, Muzzleloader or other..

 

Deer hunting has came a Long ways sense the late 70's Muzzleloader Hunting.. No Muzzleloader had to build your own and we Did.. Hawkins, Thompson Center, 50 Cal..
Kit and Bullet Mold.. All you needed was black powder .
Then the Inline Muzzleloader.. My Brother has mIne.. Still shoots it Today . Triple 7 Black powder and Bullets in a Cup..
Then the CVAs, Break Open Muzzleloaders and Scopes, Muzzleloader Scopes..
Now, 2024 Alternative" Alternate" Muzzleloader Hunting.
And lots of Deer..
Wow!! Came a Long Ways..
Good Hunting

 

I read the summary that’s now posted on the website (same one copied here by Pokerface1) and it is wrong. There is no authority in the regulation for several items contained in the summary. It looks like the summary was poorly written/written by someone who hadn’t read the actual regulation.

 

Hey AGFC, are you listening out there? I’m going to show you how to write regulations. Do you have your pen and paper ready? Ok, here we go, so pay extra close attention, it gets a little tricky. Ok, here we go!

1. No bottle necked cartridges allowed during Short Range Weapon(SRW) season.

WOW! I know, right!

 

A hunter may carry a muzzleloading handgun of any caliber as backup to a muzzleloading rifle.
Examples of legal catridges to use:

• 350 Legend
• 360 Buckhammer
• .405 Winchester
• .444 Marlin
• 44 Rem Mag
• 45/70 Government

So do I have to load my 44 mag Ruger Super Blackhawk from the muzzle to be legal? And I can use it only as a backup for hunting with my now legal 44 mag Winchester '94? They both shoot the same bullet. Now my head really hurts.

 

The only regulations listed for pistols are for ML pistols. The way the law is written, your 44Mag revolver is completely legal. That may not be their intent, but at this point, I’m hunting with anything that has a straight wall and is over 30cal, because those are the only limitation listed in the law. Prime example of permissive versus restrictive codes.

 

Currently the AGFC website indicates the same old restrictions for zone 4 and zone 5. No rifles......Am I missing something?

 

No it isn’t you who’s missing something and needs to play catch up….it’s AGFC!!

 

Looks as though all the talk about Alternative Weapons in Zones 4&5 are moot. This is in the newly published the 2024-2025 deer seasons and limits. Alternative Weapons Season - CLOSED.

 

It was never open. It’s the “special weapons restrictions on modern guns” section at the bottom of the page that applies there.

 

Someone needs to get some of y'all a pacifier or a lollypop. Y'all would b i t c h if you were hung with a new rope. This is a gift from out of nowhere and I hope the horse bites your hands.

 

That horse is from Greece….
You can start calling me Laocoon….

 

I really don't find any of it confusing. Usa a straight wall RIFLE. Not a SHOTGUN and not a PISTOL

 

It’s confusing if you’re in zone 4/5, we don’t have a MZ season. We have a MG season that’s shot gun and MZ only. Since we are allowed to use MZ I would think that SW are allowed but they way it’s worded it’s only during the designated MZ season. I emailed AGFc twice last week and haven’t gotten a reply.

 

Can use a Shotgun or Pistol in the Modern Gun Hunt..
Ol Muzzleloader, New Muzzleloader, Straight wall During Alternative Season..
Every thing else is the Same..
New CWD Area's..
Good Hunting..

 

We don’t have a ML season anymore. It is now Alternative Weapons...
What more do you need . Unless you post on the Internet, How do they know what you shot it with ? They don't and Really don't care .
Shoot it, Package it and Freeze it.. Easy peasy..

Carry on Good Hunting 👍