[spit-n-drum]

As many of you did or will, I received a Plumbcreek flier today. The main article discusses yearling buck dispersion. A study showed that 70% of 75yearling bucks left a 3300 acre test site and 50% went over 3.7 miles! There is other data to support yearling buck dispersion mentioned and several possible reasons for dispersion are included. Basically, our neighbors may have a larger impact on our young buck population than we do! I don't have a problem with a child taking a toehead for a first deer, but I think we need to all work together to reduce the number of yearling bucks killed. When going antlerless, I will make sure and confirm it is a doe and not a yearling buck. The article mentions some leases having a $100-$250 fine for killing a yearling buck.

 

[CP]

Good info....And correct.:thumb:

I just hope our regulations are not changed so that protection of the buck yearling class on public lands is made impossible.

Of course, that yearling buck dispersal also means that you will be getting a certain number of young bucks from other areas, maybe not as good a bunch as you lost though.

Button Bucks (purposely targeted) should also be added to that "young buck" list.

Eat more doe......
especially doe with twin fawn bucks...:applaud:

 

[hog69]

Hey CP

why do you say to kill a doe that has twin fawn bucks?

 

[CrabClaw]

I think the reason given for killing the mama is the bucks tended to stay in their hometown when they were orphaned, compared to being raised by their mama and migrating.

 

[CP]

Hey CP

why do you say to kill a doe that has twin fawn bucks?

First....one main reason for me selecting to harvest a doe, is to improve the overall status of the complete buck age classes (buttons to mature) along with decreasing the D/B ratio....Freezer meat is always secondary to me.

As was stated, yearling buck dispersal works in reverse to your desires of maintaining and holding the young bucks on the property.

Not stated in the title post by spit-n-drum, was THE CAUSE of most yearling buck dispersal....which is their momma.
The normal way of nature to "help" prevent inbreeding and over populations.

If you harvest that doe who is raising a single button head..you may have reduced that 70-80 percent chance of that teenage buck leaving your area(forced out by the doe)to a 0 percent chance.

Shooting a doe with TWO button heads...you may save TWO future wall hangers for three years later...:thumb:

Hope this helped answer the question.

 

[CP]

I think the reason given for killing the mama is the bucks tended to stay in their hometown when they were orphaned, compared to being raised by their mama and migrating.

:up: :up:

 

[Buba Garrett]

This is a issue we fight every year- I just hate to see a nubbin or button buck killed- if you see a very young deer by itself probably 80% of the time it falls into this class and shouldnt be shot- Remember if you look at it them Does are trophies too:thumb:

 

[CP]

This is a issue we fight every year- I just hate to see a nubbin or button buck killed- if you see a very young deer by itself probably 80% of the time it falls into this class and shouldnt be shot- Remember if you look at it them Does are trophies too:thumb:

Buba...I think education is one of our largest problems and should be a major goal.....for all.

Just cause something is "legal" does not place it in an automatic "good sound practice" thingy...:wink:

 

[jason7655]

So are we saying that if a doe and two youngsters walk out it's ALWAYS best to shoot the doe?

I have read that studies show they are less likely to leave the area.

 

[CP]

So are we saying that if a doe and two youngsters walk out it's ALWAYS best to shoot the doe?

I have read that studies show they are less likely to leave the area.

Jason....
A few things would have to be considered in each case. I don't think a blanket statement should be assumed as an answer.

IF you are going to harvest an antlerless deer and a doe walks out with one fawn or even two fawns...go ahead and take her down...no sound reason to shoot a baby deer, ever, and they will make it just fine alone.

Only the yearling bucks are subject to being forced out of the home range by their mother. Doe fawns will grow up and will remain in the maternal group inside the home area for their remaining lifetime without other influences.

 

[Manybeards]

Bye killing the momma of a button head you also eliminate the chance of imbreeding

 

[jason7655]

Jason....
A few things would have to be considered in each case. I don't think a blanket statement should be assumed as an answer.

IF you are going to harvest an antlerless deer and a doe walks out with one fawn or even two fawns...go ahead and take her down...no sound reason to shoot a baby deer, ever, and they will make it just fine alone.

Only the yearling bucks are subject to being forced out of the home range by their mother. Doe fawns will grow up and will remain in the maternal group inside the home area for their remaining lifetime without other influences.

I will try to find the article that I read, but it seems that there was evidence that orphaned deer (regardless of sex) didn't travel as far from home base as did non-orphaned deer.

I'll post more articles as I find them:
http://www.american-hunter.com/index.php/hunting/more/research_sheds_new_light_on_deer_travel_and_dispersal/

http://www.qdma.com/articles/details.asp?id=95

Not exactly the same, but helpful in picking out deer to harvest:
http://msucares.com/pubs/publications/p2206.pdf

one more and I got to get to work:
http://www.huntingforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25133

That should offer some good reading on the topic.

 

[hog69]

I gotcha CP, I knew that the youngins were more likely to stay in the area if you shoot the doe that was with em. But I thought you might have been implying something else when you mentioned a doe with 2 fawn bucks, like maybe she would have 2 fawn doe the next year or something.
But I smell what you’re stepping in :thumb:

 

[LC]

In all the literature that I have read a yearling deer is a deer between 1 and 2 years old and a nubbin is considered a fawn. If this is the case they are saying that the first year a buck has hard antlers he is dispersing.

I was brought up calling fawns yearlings so it does get confusing, but all the AGFC and timber company literature I have read calls yearlings deer between 1 and 2 years old.

LC

 

[CP]

LC...yep.:wink:

Normally, any antlered buck is into (at least) his second fall season...which is why the correct term is "Yearling Buck Dispersal". No other age class is affected by such a forced removal from the herd.

An early born fawn buck can at times, with good conditions, grow a hardened antler his first fall....not often though. He is safe until the following season when/if his mom runs him off.

 

[big shorty]

I may be wrong but I thought that the reason that the does ran the young bucks off was to prevent inbreeding. Not so much with the mother but the sisters and cousons of the young bucks. I believe this is why you see the young bucks leaving the areas they were born in. I'm not saying to shoot the buttons but am wondering just how mother nature fits in this.

 

[Gruntcall]

Maybe they didn't migrate at all.......

Maybe they were run 3.7 miles by dogs.oke:

 

[CP]

I may be wrong but I thought that the reason that the does ran the young bucks off was to prevent inbreeding.

Yep...that is part of what the thread is about...

...and that is "nature" pushing her ways...:thumb:




Gruntcall...:alright: It is gonna be OK.....

 

[CP]

To make a clear point on this discussion....of what I am NOT saying.

There is not a single "study" that I have ever read that pointed to "inbreeding" as a problem or a bad thing in a wild, free ranging deer herd. It could even be a benefit in some herds.

Some herds with better genetic traits may lose very good future bucks(offspring)...if young bucks disperse...and take those better traits to another herd.

But that is why "genetics" tend to balance themselves out area wide and why you just can't control them in a wild deer herd.

 

[Manybeards]

Being genetics balance out on an free ranging herd, it makes it simple if your tring to manage for big whitetails. Screw worring about gentics and concentrate on age (allowing deer to reach maturity) and nutrition. If you allow the bucks to reach 3.5+ years of age and give them the proper nutrition needed then you will have big bucks.

With that said the only way you can supply the proper nutrition is to have the pop. density/buck to doe ratio in order.