Tropical Storm/Hurricane Cristobal

Discussion in 'Fishing' started by NA3VY, Jun 6, 2020.

  1. NA3VY

    NA3VY Well-Known Member

    81
    66
    Arkansas, especially the Corps of Engineers may be looking at their worst nightmare. They are already in extremis with all the water in the lakes, madly trying to dump as much as possible (safely to minimize flooding) and now TS Cristobal is forecast to make landfall near New Orleans and move straight up the western and central part of Arkansas into Southern Missouri over the next 4-5 days. Where are they going to put all of the water?? The better question is why hasn't the COEng been dumping water all spring??
    73,
    NA3VY
     
    DbleAB likes this.
  2. outdoorjunkiebj

    outdoorjunkiebj Well-Known Member

    4,445
    4,196
    Pearcy
    They have been out of lakes around hot springs, lakes on the upper part of the state are a different story, they are still way up, and this rain could cause some issues. Arkansas river has pretty much been rolling all yr.
     
    d2 likes this.

  3. SwampCat

    SwampCat Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

    Corps has release restrictions based on conditions down stream. They cant just turn water loose at will and flood downstream.
     
    QuailRidge and orangefeetdown like this.
  4. NA3VY

    NA3VY Well-Known Member

    81
    66
    I'm aware of the COE's responsibilities to those downstream. They could however have been releasing much more water via the turbines and selling the power to others. That way they would have been sending COLD water down river. Now, they will likely be sending flood water downstream, much of which is WARM water which will hurt the trout fishery, plus sending untold numbers of warm water predators (bass, striped and hybrid bass, white bass and walleyes) over the spillway to wreak havoc on the trout. It's not like this problem hasn't occurred in the past. If you don't learn from prior mistakes you are doomed to repeat them. Betting on the come is a heck of a way to do your business - of course this is Guberment we are talking about. Maybe they can debate it in Congress.
     
  5. NA3VY

    NA3VY Well-Known Member

    81
    66
    "They cant just turn water loose at will and flood downstream. " Nope at some point the water will turn itself loose. I drove around many of the ramps on both Bull and Norfork today and found every one either flooded or unusable. Most of the ones a boat could be launched from looked like Walmart parking lots.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2020
  6. orangefeetdown

    orangefeetdown Well-Known Member

    23,608
    20,227
    NEA
    The trout fishery was just a benefit of the dams being built. The first and foremost obligation of the COE is flood mitigation, not the trout fishery. I utilize the trout fishery often and value it greatly, but you’ve got to keep it in perspective.
     
    jackie53, R6mm, kerrtw and 3 others like this.
  7. SwampCat

    SwampCat Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

    True - if it werent for the Corps, the trout wouldnt be there. But, to be honest, there is a whole other group of folks who wish the trout were never there.
     
  8. orangefeetdown

    orangefeetdown Well-Known Member

    23,608
    20,227
    NEA
    No doubt.
     
  9. NA3VY

    NA3VY Well-Known Member

    81
    66
    I hear what you are saying, however significant economic activity is centered around the trout being there and the COE was REQUIRED TO MITIGATE the loss of the existing fishery that was there when they built the dams. In addition, the likely flood damage from "less controlled release" of water that they are faced with now may do significantly more damage. Like it or not, the water has to go somewhere and the dams are not far from having water top the spillway. If you look at the amount of water coming in to Bull, vs the amount being currently released it is obvious they are not making much headway in lowering the water level. If I looked upon this from a purely selfish standpoint, I should be relishing the potential chance that I may be able to catch walleye, stripers and hybrids just by taking the 3.5 mile drive to White Hole on the White River. However I'd much prefer to fish the White if I want trout or drive a different mile and a half and find a ramp on Bull where I could launch my boat safely to fish at night for the warm water fish. I spent 24.5 years as a Naval Officer and just hate to see mismanagement anywhere.
     
  10. arkrem870

    arkrem870 Well-Known Member

    5,896
    2,949
    Conway
    Hope they hold all they can and start releasing it November 1
     
    orangefeetdown likes this.
  11. SwampCat

    SwampCat Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

    Those Corps projects are all multi-purpose. They each have authorized uses and they have to balance the management to satisfy the requirements. According to the gauges, The White is already in flood stage at Augusta and nearly so at Newport. Increased releases could well have caused additional flooding downstream. I am by no means an expert on the north AR Corps projects, but I believe the Corps’ responsibility for mitigation for damage of the previously existing cool water fishery was contribution of funds for construction of one or more trout hatcheries. Sometime later, an agreement was reached to supply a minimum flow to support a year round trout fishery. In addition to that, and of greater responsibility, those projects have responsibility to reduce flooding downstream, to provide electricity within regulated contractual requirements, and may well be a source for local water supplies. It can be difficult to make everyone happy when they are dealing with spring rainfall amounts that greatly exceed the norm. ;)
     
    orangefeetdown likes this.
  12. Gford

    Gford Select Member<br>2015-16 Bow Hunting Contest Winne

    5,089
    2,496
    Bismarck
    If they had been releasing more water....someone would have been griping about that!

    I'm sure they follow models and averages...it's all they got to go on. I seriously doubt they had a tropical storm predicted. Going into June/July/August I imagine the predicted rainfall is low. If they had lakes at normal going into these months there could very well have been a low level issue if we had a dry summer.
    I have griped about the COE as well, but as others have said, it's for flood control 1st. And I'm sure they have to look at everything from the lake to the Gulf to make a decision.
     
    young, QuailRidge and orangefeetdown like this.
  13. Arkiehunter74

    Arkiehunter74 Member<br>2011 Turkey Contest Winner<br>2015 Sprin

    Why haven't they been dumping it all spring? Check the Ouachita River gage for Camden from Jan. 1st until now. The river has been above flood stage for 2.5 months out of 5 months. My land is in the river bottoms and we can expect it to flood 2 to 3 times a year. It may be under water for a few days to a few weeks at most. Due to creek channels, our land starts going under at about 23 ft in Camden (26 ft is flood stage). Holding this much water like we have, I can tell you what we are looking forward to. Lots and lots of dead trees. A lot which don't tend to stay under water for so long, but also since the ground turns to mud and softens, any strong winds like to topple the trees. And with the straight line winds we had about a month ago that come through we expect it to be really bad. I know the lakes in Hot Springs and Arkadelphia need to look pretty for the summertime users, but I hope they close the dams and give us some relief.
     
  14. SwampCat

    SwampCat Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

    Ouachita and Greeson are currently in the flood pool right now. Degray is about a foot away. With several inches of rain on the way - you may be wet for awhile. I have property on the lakeside of a Corps dam. Half of my property has only been accessible by foot and usually with waders since the end of January. I am usually down there planting and bush hogging by mid spring. If it quit raining today, I might be able to ride a four wheeler down there by Fourth of July. We are right at 37” of rain for the year at my place. I think normal for the year is just over 50”.
     
  15. DonniePowell

    DonniePowell Well-Known Member

    1,718
    2,821
    Ozarks
    Another pandemic, the tropical storm pandemic.
     
    QuailRidge and orangefeetdown like this.
  16. NA3VY

    NA3VY Well-Known Member

    81
    66
    "I'm sure they follow models and averages...it's all they got to go on. I seriously doubt they had a tropical storm predicted."

    I am also sure they have models, but they also have to look at the actual year to date rainfall and account for that. That might change the choice of model they use. They can't operate in a vacuum. As for tropical systems, the storm prediction for this year is for a larger than normal number of storms. If what I read on this board is true, this is a problem that has occurred multiple times in the last few years.

    On the good side the fish in these reservoirs should be having a banner spawning recruitment year. I understand this is the best for the survival of Crappie, bream and bass fry. If this has been a recurring story for the last number of years we shouldn't be hearing complaints about a shortage of these fish.
     
    Kodiac likes this.
  17. orangefeetdown

    orangefeetdown Well-Known Member

    23,608
    20,227
    NEA
    I’m sure they take all current data into consideration... it would be fairly asinine to not. Until one gets their hands on the plan to actually read what it says, it’s all guessing and conjecture as to what they do or don’t do...
     
    Remington and QuailRidge like this.
  18. NA3VY

    NA3VY Well-Known Member

    81
    66
    I'm just glad I don't live in the river valley - almost did that with a house just upstream of the Norfork on the White. Sleeping would not be easy now if I had bought that house. IF we get much rain from this tropical system (we are under flash flood watch already) there probably is going to be a disaster downstream - which is why the dam was built in the first place. I'm told the lake can easily rise by multiple feet which is not good when you are inches from the top.
     
  19. SwampCat

    SwampCat Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

    you have to have a realistic approach to all of this. The projects were built to control most of the flooding - but there are some events that occur outside the capabilities of the project. I remember in 2015 where I live on Millwood lake. Lake levels were held almost 20 ft above normal for over two months. The river valley upstream of the dam held depths of water that no one had seen before. At the same time, Shreveport, downstream, was also flooded. Water was across interstate 30 and US 71. The corps had the choice of releasing more water and flooding Shreveport even worse, or keep flooding the less inhabited land upstream. A lot of the water management plans were formulated years ago. The past five years have been wet. Is that just a short wet cycle we are in that does not justify changing the way the projects are operated, or is it actual climate change and new management plans are warranted. Dump all the water in the spring, and the power companies then come up short during a dry summer and users are left with insufficient electricity to run their AC and boat ramps are left high and dry for Labor day weekend and Marina owners are left with docks high and dry and damaged from sitting on the lake bottom. And heaven forbid, not enough water to maintain a minimum flow to keep a trout alive.

    It is a fine line the Corps has to play to half way appease all the special interest groups - and then along comes mother nature - and she doesnt always play by the book;)
     
  20. NA3VY

    NA3VY Well-Known Member

    81
    66
    30 plus feet of water ABOVE power pool seems just a bit out of even a conscientious norm. The marina operators are already suffering of the combo of Covid-19 and water so high few can launch their boats/jet skis. About the only group happy are the fish and maybe that is not bad at all.