I am not going to step in the dog/no dog battle - but I think the quality of deer in general has improved. My son and I were discussing this just the other day. When he was growing up and began deer hunting in the late 80's - any buck was a good buck. I shot one 8 pt in the 1980's - spikes were the norm. Now, we know 14 yr old kids who are passing 15 inch 8 pts. It is a different mindset nowadays. In the 80's and early 90's - we went deer hunting for whatever was legal. First legal deer was killed. At least in our situation, the 3 pt rule made a big difference. Of course, it made us start passing smaller bucks because they were not legal. After a few years of the 3 pt rule, we were killing as many 8 pts as we did spikes in the 80's. The herd grew in numbers, season length was extended - there was not that feeling that the first buck you saw was the only buck you would see that season. Hunting shows where hunters commonly passed multiple deer became common place. A different hunting mindset developed. Landowners developed better habitat for the deer.

There are still a few folks around that dog hunt. I don't do it anymore, but it can be an enjoyable hunt - more like a team sport than a solitary adventure. I have never owned a deer dog, but I have owned many labs and bird dogs and whenever they did something great, it made me proud. Dog hunters exhibit the same pride when it is THEIR dog that is leading pack. But, no doubt - it is a dying sport.

 

Growing up my family owned a 900 acre farm we had a deer club of 100 members and every family had deer dogs....it's very enjoyable!!! It's a myth that you run deer out the area or you can't get big bucks etc!! We've turned loose as many as 230 dogs that morning and never see or kill a big buck because they are smart and 3 in 10 drives ever yield a buck period! After running dogs on Friday or Saturday I was able to go get in my stand any evening after school and still see deer!! And have killed a few Big bucks the evening after drives! Big bucks are smart you think they are "out the area" but in reality he's just pattern you! When we ran dog Id see the deer go through the cut off and call across the radio big buck coming hear shot get there and guess what DOES!!! Hmm where did he go? Most of the time he broke off and doubled back...it takes a smart dog to know he peeled off and to go back and get him after the does are killed!! Now that I'm an adult joined the military and moved on all I do is still hunt and I laugh at hunters that say yea the dogs will run them out the area...so um what about coyotes? A whitetail deer has a home range of 300-400 acres the only thing that can really change that is the rut!

 

Both styles of hunting are fun.

 

Growing up my family owned a 900 acre farm we had a deer club of 100 members and every family had deer dogs....it's very enjoyable!!! It's a myth that you run deer out the area or you can't get big bucks etc!! We've turned loose as many as 230 dogs that morning and never see or kill a big buck because they are smart and 3 in 10 drives ever yield a buck period! After running dogs on Friday or Saturday I was able to go get in my stand any evening after school and still see deer!! And have killed a few Big bucks the evening after drives! Big bucks are smart you think they are "out the area" but in reality he's just pattern you! When we ran dog Id see the deer go through the cut off and call across the radio big buck coming hear shot get there and guess what DOES!!! Hmm where did he go? Most of the time he broke off and doubled back...it takes a smart dog to know he peeled off and to go back and get him after the does are killed!! Now that I'm an adult joined the military and moved on all I do is still hunt and I laugh at hunters that say yea the dogs will run them out the area...so um what about coyotes? A whitetail deer has a home range of 300-400 acres the only thing that can really change that is the rut!

I coon hunt with dogs, never said they would run them off. I grew up I willow 30years ago everyone had dogs but us. You will not run them off its just the younger bucks don't know to double back and pick up a doe. Yea, you pick up a 2yo 8point but all you see is a 8pt coming. Now with out being pushed out he might make 3-4yo before he make a mistake and someone picks him off. Now the 8pt is a 10pt that's all I am saying. I have hunted the some spot for 2 1/2years now, took that long to get him to mess up. Now if there had been dogs he MIGHT have been pushed out for someone to make a shoot on. That's my point.

 

I think there's all sorts of arguements one could make about this. Is it because of no dogs? Short or no gun seasons? Antler restrictions? Management practices? Name one and make a case.

I read about every debate on all of these forums, yet rarely reply. Everyone is always going to have different opinions on what is the best management style/hunting method/season length, etc.

The way I see it, there's plenty of opportunity in this great state to hunt however you want to hunt. If you don't like to run dogs, hunt a dog free zone. If you don't like long gun seasons, go hunt these wma's where the studs are killed.

Whatever or however you decide to hunt, enjoy the hunt and be thankful that you have the chance and the health to do it.

Disclaimer: This post is not directed toward the OP or anyone else. Just a generalization of all the different threads I see with differing opinions. Not that I don't enjoy a good debate every once in a while, that's what makes this country the best!

 

I coon hunt with dogs, never said they would run them off. I grew up I willow 30years ago everyone had dogs but us. You will not run them off its just the younger bucks don't know to double back and pick up a doe. Yea, you pick up a 2yo 8point but all you see is a 8pt coming. Now with out being pushed out he might make 3-4yo before he make a mistake and someone picks him off. Now the 8pt is a 10pt that's all I am saying. I have hunted the some spot for 2 1/2years now, took that long to get him to mess up. Now if there had been dogs he MIGHT have been pushed out for someone to make a shoot on. That's my point.

I miss took your push them out...sorry most ppl say push them out of the area

 

The deer won't get bigger. I hunt in zone 12 and haven't heard a dog all year and still all I have camera are dinks. The reason deer get bigger on wmas is because you can't rifle hunt for 30+ days.

 

There are WMA's that still get ran on. There are parts of Bois D Arc that has dogs pretty regular and cows are to boot.

 

The deer won't get bigger. I hunt in zone 12 and haven't heard a dog all year and still all I have camera are dinks. The reason deer get bigger on wmas is because you can't rifle hunt for 30+ days.

I hunt 12, Grew up in WILLOW, all I ever killed growing up where small deer. Now most of the clubs around have quit running dogs and the deer have gotten bigger around here. Just from what I have seen killed. There are some good 8's and 10's killed. Just looking on the board at Country Corner. Look at what was up 10years ago and whats up now. I bet Jerry still has the pics. I have all ways gone through the pics at the end of the year. look at all the roads behind the gates, a deer stand on every corner. If you have 5-6000 acres and you have to get out and find them the deer will benefit.

 

For many the slaughter is getting old....... Killing big bucks is much more fun :up:

 

I hunt 12, Grew up in WILLOW, all I ever killed growing up where small deer. Now most of the clubs around have quit running dogs and the deer have gotten bigger around here. Just from what I have seen killed. There are some good 8's and 10's killed. Just looking on the board at Country Corner. Look at what was up 10years ago and whats up now. I bet Jerry still has the pics. I have all ways gone through the pics at the end of the year. look at all the roads behind the gates, a deer stand on every corner. If you have 5-6000 acres and you have to get out and find them the deer will benefit.

Do you really think the deer in that area are getting bigger because people are not running dogs as much? I would say the deer are getting bigger because there is a 3 point rule. Still even with the 3 point rule and less dog running I still don't see deer that would match those coming from the WMAs of east Arkansas. I don't run dogs but I support those who do 100%. Running dogs is not the cause of small deer.

 

I grew up hunting the old 3 point rule.......if you saw three ears, you shot.

I never learned much about deer till the 3 point rule. Now I'm forced to watch em.

Back then, there were very few deer. Then there were very many. Now there are very few.

 

I think everyone's opinion falls under two schools of thought and it depends if they're in the meat crowd or the antler crowd.

Those who go out to hunt and their priority is to put some deer meat in the freezer don't care if they shoot a doe, a 3 pt. Or a 12. I don't think they're going to pass up a good shot at any legal deer just to wait it out for the big donkey to walk by.

I know this thread was more about running dogs, but this is just something I have noticed from being on this forum for a couple years.

Its the same things that has happened to bass fishing. The mainstream commercial media has put the same shame on shooting a smaller(although)legal deer as there is to keeping a few bass for the frying pan.

Its the guys who fish big money bass tournaments that will call anyone that keeps a few bass to feed their family a dumb red neck, and its the people that bow hunt year round just to put a new bigger set of antlers on the wall that will call the guys that go out and tag out on legal deer the problem for the small deer or the reduced sightings.

From what I see in my neighborhood and what I see on the side of the road every year, there's no shortage of deer around here. Make what you want of deer hunting, whether its your weekend hobby or a way to feed your family. Do so in any legal way you care for and dont look down on anyone else for doing it their way, as long as they're following the law.

 

I think everyone's opinion falls under two schools of thought and it depends if they're in the meat crowd or the antler crowd.

Those who go out to hunt and their priority is to put some deer meat in the freezer don't care if they shoot a doe, a 3 pt. Or a 12. I don't think they're going to pass up a good shot at any legal deer just to wait it out for the big donkey to walk by.

I know this thread was more about running dogs, but this is just something I have noticed from being on this forum for a couple years.

Its the same things that has happened to bass fishing. The mainstream commercial media has put the same shame on shooting a smaller(although)legal deer as there is to keeping a few bass for the frying pan.

Its the guys who fish big money bass tournaments that will call anyone that keeps a few bass to feed their family a dumb red neck, and its the people that bow hunt year round just to put a new bigger set of antlers on the wall that will call the guys that go out and tag out on legal deer the problem for the small deer or the reduced sightings.

From what I see in my neighborhood and what I see on the side of the road every year, there's no shortage of deer around here. Make what you want of deer hunting, whether its your weekend hobby or a way to feed your family. Do so in any legal way you care for and dont look down on anyone else for doing it their way, as long as they're following the law.

Amen

 

A buddy and I killed these two public land bucks this year 24hours apart less than 200yrds apart

 

man I can't figure why the pic would b upsidedown??

 

A buddy and I killed these two public land bucks this year 24hours apart less than 200yrds apart
View attachment 64619

Look like Australian bucks to me.

 

Growing up my family owned a 900 acre farm we had a deer club of 100 members and every family had deer dogs....it's very enjoyable!!! It's a myth that you run deer out the area or you can't get big bucks etc!! We've turned loose as many as 230 dogs that morning and never see or kill a big buck because they are smart and 3 in 10 drives ever yield a buck period! After running dogs on Friday or Saturday I was able to go get in my stand any evening after school and still see deer!! And have killed a few Big bucks the evening after drives! Big bucks are smart you think they are "out the area" but in reality he's just pattern you! When we ran dog Id see the deer go through the cut off and call across the radio big buck coming hear shot get there and guess what DOES!!! Hmm where did he go? Most of the time he broke off and doubled back...it takes a smart dog to know he peeled off and to go back and get him after the does are killed!! Now that I'm an adult joined the military and moved on all I do is still hunt and I laugh at hunters that say yea the dogs will run them out the area...so um what about coyotes? A whitetail deer has a home range of 300-400 acres the only thing that can really change that is the rut!

Texas spent a lot of time and money to survey deer and dog hunting--the whole report is 1 inch thick,collared dogs and deer--end result was that u had to have a 30,000 acre lease with a 10,000 acre core center where d dogs had to be dropped--so u would not have ur dogs on another lease--the whole problem with dog hunting is not the idea of dogs chasing deer but trespassing on private lands--

 

Growing up my family owned a 900 acre farm we had a deer club of 100 members and every family had deer dogs....it's very enjoyable!!! It's a myth that you run deer out the area or you can't get big bucks etc!! We've turned loose as many as 230 dogs that morning and never see or kill a big buck because they are smart and 3 in 10 drives ever yield a buck period! After running dogs on Friday or Saturday I was able to go get in my stand any evening after school and still see deer!! And have killed a few Big bucks the evening after drives! Big bucks are smart you think they are "out the area" but in reality he's just pattern you! When we ran dog Id see the deer go through the cut off and call across the radio big buck coming hear shot get there and guess what DOES!!! Hmm where did he go? Most of the time he broke off and doubled back...it takes a smart dog to know he peeled off and to go back and get him after the does are killed!! Now that I'm an adult joined the military and moved on all I do is still hunt and I laugh at hunters that say yea the dogs will run them out the area...so um what about coyotes? A whitetail deer has a home range of 300-400 acres the only thing that can really change that is the rut!

Well said I agree a 100%. I hunted in a club in La still hunt with them some as a kid we always ran dogs there then they stopped for about 8 -10 years. They started back running again About 5 or 6 years ago the younger members started raising dogs again. As far as the number of deer harvested it always averaged about the same with or without dogs. Far as size the Bucks have gotten a little better over he last few years I think due to more people letting deer walk , but could be luck I reckon. I don't run dogs much but it sure can be fun ! Like stated in a earlier post it's more of a group effort than a solo one . I like the socializing from time to time and hearing a good race .

 

Digging up bones, digging up bones

 

Do guys running dogs affect the overall buck quality and size in Arkansas? I don't think so.

Have I ever had someone running dogs ruin a hunt? Yes I have. But so have mountain bikers, joggers, atvs, deer drives, etc.

Do I think hunting with dogs should be banned? No. Hunting with dogs goes back thousands of years. Long before any hunting method popular today.

Regulate it. Limit it as we do every other method. But eliminating one man's hunt to improve someone else's hunt is selfish and wrong.

Just my $.02

Miketyson26 :flag:

 

Texas spent a lot of time and money to survey deer and dog hunting--the whole report is 1 inch thick,collared dogs and deer--end result was that u had to have a 30,000 acre lease with a 10,000 acre core center where d dogs had to be dropped--so u would not have ur dogs on another lease--the whole problem with dog hunting is not the idea of dogs chasing deer but trespassing on private lands--

I could see this possibly dogs can cover a lot of ground no doubt . Did it say what part of Texas ? Lots of parts of Texas is way different terrain than Arkansas . The parts if Texas I have hunted and where I work a dog could cover a lot more ground quicker I would think than pats of Arkansas. Another think to take into consideration based on whenever this study was done a lot of dog hunters have gps tracking systems and it makes it way way way easier to retrieve your dogs before they get off your land. Sure there's lots of variables though , but gps tracking systems and 2 way radios makes it a lot easier to cut off a dog. Now the people having two hundred acres running the boarders ect sure its not going to fix that problem.

 

don't believe in deer dogging, have done it before but ain't my cup of tea.........does deer dogging effect the quality of bucks? are bucks sensitive to constant hunting pressure by dogs running thru an area or hunters being afield?........

 

First, I was raised in a "really" small community that doesn't even have a population sign.. WAY, way, way, back in the boonies in the Ouachita's and everyone has and runs dogs....

I hunted for many, many years with dogs and killed a lot of deer. Some years I had as many as 40 hunting dogs of just my own.. It was a real "hoot" to chase dogs and try and get in front of the race...It is our little community's heritage to have and run dogs while deer hunting and has been for well over 150 years...

Now with that being said, I don't hunt with dogs any more.. Not because of any other reason other than I just can't hit or get the shots that I want on the deer running like a bat out of h**l.. I have found that I have a lot better results still hunting..

I do still hunt with a bunch of guys that all have dogs and run them every day of season..

I just find out where they are going to be turning loose and running their dogs and then I take my climber in that area 150-200 yards off of a road and post up where I can see all around me.. When the dogs strike and run, they may be running 1-5 deer at first but the deer that are scared and pushed out is always more !!! The deer that are not being chased are just moving around to avoiding the dogs.. I kill some really good bucks this way..

It seems the deer knows all of the roads and tries to avoid them during season.. They will move parallel to the roads until they get/find a place that they think is safe for them to cross..

While the dogs may be running 1-5 deer, they may be pushing/moving as many as 25 that are just avoiding all of the racket and commotion.

As far as dogs affecting the racks on bucks, I think it only makes a difference when the horn are in velvet and soft.. I have watched bucks play/wait on dogs to catch up to begin the fun and games again..

I also don't think that dogs should chase does right before they have fawns or for a month after having fawns...

:twocents:

 

There are WMA's that still get ran on. There are parts of Bois D Arc that has dogs pretty regular and cows are to boot.[/QUOT


beef tastes better than deer