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Great article in today's paper (11/6). I feel sorry for those guys losing their lease right before season. Sounds like they have been doing everything right and someone else gets to reap rewards.
 

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Great article in today's paper (11/6). I feel sorry for those guys losing their lease right before season. Sounds like they have been doing everything right and someone else gets to reap rewards.
That was tough!
Those guys were robbed by IP.

I leased 1400 acres a few years ago from an individual. The second year that we had it, he started asking us about making road improvements. (one of us had a dozer and he knew it) I said that we would, but we would need a 5 year lease agreement. He declined and I found out later that he had already sold the property.
 

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Aint it ashame- time was when you could still take a man for his word!! I do my damnest to ensure I still do but if you rely on others that will bite ya sooner or later!
 

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Although our Lease is a 5 yr agreement....it is actually only a 90 day lease!!!! They have to give us 90 day notice if they sell it!!!!!!!! that 90 days is so we can remove our stands/belongings!!!!

They pulled the lease on 2 camps last year...2 weeks before season......because they found them feeding corn!!!!!!!! And it is stated in the lease that feeding...especially corn is prohibited!!!!!
 

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Do you guys have a link to the article? Why would they care if someone was feeding the deer corn?
If you are referring to my post.....the Timber company.that we lease from...NOT IP....does not allow feeding of the critters!!

Their Biologist says...............

If you feed corn.......
1..........It bunches the herd up......
2...If you get 1 sick deer........it infects the entire herd.........

We asked what 4300 acres of soybeans and corn onthe other side of the levee does, and he shrugs his shoulders and walks away!!!!!!!!

Needless to say, we don't agree with his thinking, but we have to abide by his rules!!!!
 

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Once again we see timber companies managing game animals which is the jurisdiction of AGFC....what does a forester actually know about game management?? Not nearly as much as they pretend, but if you are talking about getting rich off the sport....they know all about that!:mad:
 

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If you belong to a hunting club that leases its land, here’s a good reason why not to manage for trophy bucks.

Bob Smith of Little Rock is a charter member of Camp One, which for more than 30 years leased about 3,000 acres of paper company land near Murfreesboro. In 1980, Smith said, Camp One became the first club in Arkansas that leased land from International Paper Co., to adopt quality deer management practices. He added that Hugh Durham, International Paper’s deer biologist at that time, honored the club by suggesting the name, Camp One. Durham later served as director of the Arkansas Game and Fish Commission.

Among other things, the club observed strict antler point limits and minimum spread requirements for club-legal bucks. The program’s purpose was to enable whitetail bucks to reach adulthood and achieve their potential for antler growth and body weight. The program was successful, and over the years the club earned a reputation for growing trophy class whitetails on its leased land. The club continued its program, even though the property changed owners several times.

“We were very well known,” Smith said. “We measured all of our antlers and kept our own check sheets. We’ve been doing that since 1980, and we even went about three years in the early ’90s without killing a single buck deer. It’s one of those clubs where if you don’t kill a deer to put on the wall, it’s because you aren’t hunting. I saw one last week that had an 18- to 20-inch spread.”

Fame was probably the club’s downfall because last week, less than two weeks before opening day of modern gun deer season, Camp One lost its lease. The paper company that owned the land recently sold it to a company that specializes in commercial hunting properties, which in turn leased it to a small group of individuals from Arkansas, Texas and Louisiana.

Of course, people and companies buy and sell land all the time, and they have the right to do with their property as they please. However, Camp One was never notified that its lease had been sold, Smith said. He said he learned it about two weeks ago when he and other Camp One members were at camp tending to deer stands and food plots. The new lease holders showed up with a couple of trailers loaded with heavy equipment and informed them it was their club now. They announced that Camp One would be able to hunt the last part of muzzleloader season and after that they would have to vacate the property. They also gave them time to remove their deerstands and other property.

The worst part about the deal, Smith said, is that the former landowner told Camp One it would renew the club’s lease and to continue planting and maintaining food plots as usual. He said some members got concerned when the former owner did not request the lease payment at the usual time, and they got increasingly anxious as gun deer season approached. They should have followed up more aggressively a lot sooner, but having leased the place for so long, they didn’t consider that they might lose their lease in such a manner.

Many of us talk among ourselves about the increasing cost of hunting, but most of the cost is in having a place to hunt. A great many Arkansans lease land from timber companies that regularly raise their lease prices, resulting in ever-increasing dues for club members. Most understand that they live hand-to-mouth, so to speak, and they can lose their leases at any time.

If your club has the foresight, discipline and wherewithal to manage a lease in a way that produces trophy quality bucks, you’ll increase the land’s recreational value for the landowner, which makes it attractive to wealthy sportsmen who are more than happy to reap the profits of your hard work. Some reward, huh? Unless you own your own property, you’re better off following the state’s minimum 3-point rule.

It’s just one more reason why we need more public hunting land, somewhere other than in the Ozarks.
 

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Stats

There are a lot of camps that manipulate their stats for precisley this reason. Could be why some of the large timber companies contribute so heavily to QDMA. QDMA, after it came to AR and promoted the 3 point rule started saying their organization was for "land owners". Bet Hambone can tell you some interesting stories as to why there was never a QDMA Chapter in AR except for one put together by some of his relatives and close friends,
QDM and QDMA or two different quantities. Here is the link for sponsors.
http://www.qdma.com/sponsors/sponsors.asp
The QDM concept is great if you want a quality deer herd.
It may be time for hunters to consider adding a couple of clauses of their own to a contract. A whole other subject.
Maybe support legislative action to put forth a couple of real estate property laws pertianing to hunting leases. One such ,"A hunting lease can not be canceled inside of 90 days of the season start and written notice must be given. If it is canceled inside of 90 days the leaseholders must be reimbursed for any and all expenses pertaining to the required and unrequired improvements to the property if within the bounds of the lease agreement." It can be polished but that's a start.


Great article in today's paper (11/6). I feel sorry for those guys losing their lease right before season. Sounds like they have been doing everything right and someone else gets to reap rewards.[/quote]
 

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If you are referring to my post.....the Timber company.that we lease from...NOT IP....does not allow feeding of the critters!!

Their Biologist says...............

If you feed corn.......
1..........It bunches the herd up......
2...If you get 1 sick deer........it infects the entire herd.........

We asked what 4300 acres of soybeans and corn onthe other side of the levee does, and he shrugs his shoulders and walks away!!!!!!!!

Needless to say, we don't agree with his thinking, but we have to abide by his rules!!!!
Sounds like Anderson/ Tulley.... they do the same thing
 

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Once again we see timber companies managing game animals which is the jurisdiction of AGFC....what does a forester actually know about game management?? Not nearly as much as they pretend, but if you are talking about getting rich off the sport....they know all about that!:mad:
Exactly John... This is the new ploy timber companies are using to raise lease prices. Nothing more. Some timber companies employ so-called "deer biologists", but if you ask me my opinion, it's prolly just a promoted forester. :banghead:
 

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This is why I support the AGFC buying up as much land as they can. I don't want to hunt public land, but I also realize it is just a matter of time before my deer leases go away. It may not be in the near future, but it will happen.
 

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Sounds like Anderson/ Tulley.... they do the same thing
You Hit the nail on the head!!!!!!!!!

We were still under a 4pt rule, for a while after the AGFC adopted the statewide 3pt rule...they they allowed us to go with the 3pt rule!!!

They are strict...one camp, last year, manipulated their check sheets.....all deer killed...well, almost all were 15 inch (which is minimum) spread, or 18 inch beam (which is also minimum)...the AT biologist ran into a member and saw the rack of his 8pt...it was not legal per A.T. rules....the guy didn't know that then guy he was talking to was the A.T. biologist:doh: ........ Next thing ya know, that Camp had a new minimum.......18inch Spread and 20 inch Beam for the next season!!!!!!!!!

That's how they......Timber companies .......like A.T. (Anderson/Tully) can control Hunters!!! They will tell you in a heartbeat...If you don't want to pay big money for the lease..we have a list of Doctor's/Lawyers etc., THAT WILL!!!

As far as the feeding goes...A.T. convinced other timber companies...like Chicago Mill....that if they had leased land that bordered A.T. land not to feed as well!! also, the Leased Land Manager/Head Honcho for A.T., unless he has been replaced, was/is an INVESTMENT BANKER.......does that tell ya anything!!!
 

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There are a lot of camps that manipulate their stats for precisley this reason. Could be why some of the large timber companies contribute so heavily to QDMA. QDMA, after it came to AR and promoted the 3 point rule started saying their organization was for "land owners". Bet Hambone can tell you some interesting stories as to why there was never a QDMA Chapter in AR except for one put together by some of his relatives and close friends,
QDM and QDMA or two different quantities. Here is the link for sponsors.
http://www.qdma.com/sponsors/sponsors.asp
The QDM concept is great if you want a quality deer herd.
It may be time for hunters to consider adding a couple of clauses of their own to a contract. A whole other subject.
Maybe support legislative action to put forth a couple of real estate property laws pertianing to hunting leases. One such ,"A hunting lease can not be canceled inside of 90 days of the season start and written notice must be given. If it is canceled inside of 90 days the leaseholders must be reimbursed for any and all expenses pertaining to the required and unrequired improvements to the property if within the bounds of the lease agreement." It can be polished but that's a start.


Great article in today's paper (11/6). I feel sorry for those guys losing their lease right before season. Sounds like they have been doing everything right and someone else gets to reap rewards.
[/QUOTE]

FYI, there have actually been two other "branches" here in AR. in the past. One was in Central Ar.(not the one you speak of) and the other was in Texarkana. I know they have a number of resources that help all hunters, especially the magazine. Just like all the other orgs. there is always going to be an agenda. $$$
 

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If you belong to a hunting club that leases its land, here’s a good reason why not to manage for trophy bucks.

Bob Smith of Little Rock is a charter member of Camp One, which for more than 30 years leased about 3,000 acres of paper company land near Murfreesboro. In 1980, Smith said, Camp One became the first club in Arkansas that leased land from International Paper Co., to adopt quality deer management practices. He added that Hugh Durham, International Paper’s deer biologist at that time, honored the club by suggesting the name, Camp One. Durham later served as director of the Arkansas Game and Fish Commission.

Among other things, the club observed strict antler point limits and minimum spread requirements for club-legal bucks. The program’s purpose was to enable whitetail bucks to reach adulthood and achieve their potential for antler growth and body weight. The program was successful, and over the years the club earned a reputation for growing trophy class whitetails on its leased land. The club continued its program, even though the property changed owners several times.

“We were very well known,” Smith said. “We measured all of our antlers and kept our own check sheets. We’ve been doing that since 1980, and we even went about three years in the early ’90s without killing a single buck deer. It’s one of those clubs where if you don’t kill a deer to put on the wall, it’s because you aren’t hunting. I saw one last week that had an 18- to 20-inch spread.”

Fame was probably the club’s downfall because last week, less than two weeks before opening day of modern gun deer season, Camp One lost its lease. The paper company that owned the land recently sold it to a company that specializes in commercial hunting properties, which in turn leased it to a small group of individuals from Arkansas, Texas and Louisiana.

Of course, people and companies buy and sell land all the time, and they have the right to do with their property as they please. However, Camp One was never notified that its lease had been sold, Smith said. He said he learned it about two weeks ago when he and other Camp One members were at camp tending to deer stands and food plots. The new lease holders showed up with a couple of trailers loaded with heavy equipment and informed them it was their club now. They announced that Camp One would be able to hunt the last part of muzzleloader season and after that they would have to vacate the property. They also gave them time to remove their deerstands and other property.

The worst part about the deal, Smith said, is that the former landowner told Camp One it would renew the club’s lease and to continue planting and maintaining food plots as usual. He said some members got concerned when the former owner did not request the lease payment at the usual time, and they got increasingly anxious as gun deer season approached. They should have followed up more aggressively a lot sooner, but having leased the place for so long, they didn’t consider that they might lose their lease in such a manner.

Many of us talk among ourselves about the increasing cost of hunting, but most of the cost is in having a place to hunt. A great many Arkansans lease land from timber companies that regularly raise their lease prices, resulting in ever-increasing dues for club members. Most understand that they live hand-to-mouth, so to speak, and they can lose their leases at any time.

If your club has the foresight, discipline and wherewithal to manage a lease in a way that produces trophy quality bucks, you’ll increase the land’s recreational value for the landowner, which makes it attractive to wealthy sportsmen who are more than happy to reap the profits of your hard work. Some reward, huh? Unless you own your own property, you’re better off following the state’s minimum 3-point rule.

It’s just one more reason why we need more public hunting land, somewhere other than in the Ozarks.
Our camp #1 hunting club was the first club to lease land from International Paper Co. It's just south of Sheridan 2 or 3 miles.:confused: If these men didn't know this was coming they were blind as bats.
 

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Paper/timber ect. companies should not be allowed to lease the lands for hunting. It should be treated like public land that anybody can hunt. That would solve alot of problems.
 
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