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Member<br>2011 Turkey Contest Winner<br>2011-2012
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Ive bowhunting nearly all my life and this is the strangest thing I have ever had happen...To start with I have had some of the best deer of my life under me this year and have had terrible luck gettin em on the ground..Some of you may remember the story I posted about the monster I shot in Nebraska this fall and didnt kill.."The landowner next to our farm has seen him since I shot him And he seems fine" I changed to expandable broadheads and have never shot them before..Now I aint blaming everything thats happened on them but I know I am now shooting G5 Montecs..And /or 3 blade muzzies...Just for the record...Well on to my story..I found this deer by my house on the 14th of Dec..I packed a treestand in there on the 15th of Dec. And got set up..At 5:00 p.m.Here he comes.I get him at 15 yrds And almost broadside,Maybe slightly quartering toward me,I pull tight to his shoulder.And when I shot it looked perfect.The weird thing is that I still had about 6-8"of shaft sticking out of him...When he takes off he hit a cedar tree and pulled the arrow on thru.him.Well I couldnt see the deer for very far but figured he wouldnt make it 100 yrds. with where the shot was..I got down and looked at the arrow and it was blood soaked on the top half but clean on the broadhead end.Strange I know....Well anyway I spent 5 days looking for this deer.So about 2 weeks ago.I jumped him.So I took a camera in there and these are the pictures I got..The dates are correct..The one with him waliking away shows a white spot,Or scar.This is where the arrow went in..I have pics.Of the other side of him and the shot exit hole was right under his spine on the off side.."I didnt post them cause you have to zoom in to see them"That means the arrow came out about 5 inches higher than where it went in..Now I was 25' high in a tree and the buck was below me down hill...I smoked this buck,I knew I did when I shot him,But something happened I cant explain..So lets hear some theories.Or somebody that has had something similair happen..I have shot thru deer before and had my arrow buried in the ground pointing toward me twice.But never this.....:head: Deer Wildlife White-tailed deer Roe deer Tree
Deer Wildlife Terrestrial animal Organism Tree
 

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Member<br>2011 Turkey Contest Winner<br>2011-2012
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I didnt realize it till I posted the pics.But you can "kinda" see the exit hole in the first pic.High and midway back...
 

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There is a very narrow window under the spine that can miss the majority of the lungs... I shot a buck at eye level a few years back that hit this "dead space". Shot was right behind the shoulder and just under the spine. At the time I thought the shot was great. Really didn't expect the deer to run out of sight. It was a tough track but my deer did die from the shot. Interestingly when I field dressed it I had barely nicked the underside of the spine but the top of the lungs were literally untouched!

With your shot angle this shouldn't have happened but neither should that exit wound location. My point is simply that some seemingly good shots can end up doing little damage just like some bad shots can do lots of damage... Some physiological details may have also played a role in the presence of the "dead space". Inhale vs exhale will change the overall size of the lungs just enough to make a difference... Just like when I take x-rays of a dogs chest. Have to take it on inhale or the lungs will be smaller and more difficult to assess.
 

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That just goes to show that not all deer that are shot and not recovered actually die. In fact I believe most deer that are shot and not recovered will live to fight another day. I've got a buddy who shot a doe a few years back and he swore he made a perfect hit on her, but couldn't find her. A couple months later he got a pic of her at his feeder and she had a scar right behind the shoulder, but a little high. Looking at the pic you would swear she should have died, but there she stood muching on his corn!:shrug: Deer are some tough animals.
 

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at the shot he dropped and wheeled away from you, altering the path of the arrow, and with his motion the exiting end of the arrow stuck in the ground enough that the blood came off. did you happen to be on a grassy knoll???
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
browning...he didnt drop much from what I seen.I didnt pass thru him either..He pulled the arrow thru him when he ran past a cedar...
 

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I shot a doe once with my xbow that was a flat broadside shot. It should have gone right through her, but it came out at nearly a 90 degree angle from where it went in. When I opened her up I found the path of the arrow. It hit the offside shoulder bone and deflected back and came out near the ham after going through the gut. Arrows can do strange things, especially when they are in a moving target.
 

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I'm a firm believer of this "dead space". It's a small area that has nothin there to cause a fatal wound. I prefer the quartering away shot. Im yet to lose one and if they jump the string you still have a chance at all the goodies.
 

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And you guys are more qualified than the vetinerian/taxidermist/hunter because why? Btw, I also whole heartedly believe you can put one under the spine and over the lungs! Dogdoc just told you of an example of where he has done it himself and he's by far the most knowledgeable of animal anatomy in this conversation.
 

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Maybe the arrow actually went through in front of and above the lungs in the area of the shoulder. As well you can go through the back in the area of the spine but not be in the chest cavity itself. Over the actual spinal column or just below but most likely over.
With a mechanical maybe one side opened and the other didn't and the difference in friction forced the arrow to change directions.
Who knows but I've been there and done that.
 

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silentassassin

you can believe whatever you want to believe, that doesn't make it true






what many people think of as the "spine" is the bone you can easily palpate running down the middle of your back. YES that is part of your "backbone"...NO it is NOT where the spinal cord runs. it is a part of your vertebral column called the "spinous process", which sticks out of each intividual vertebra. it is along these that the backstraps reside. The spinal cord runs in the open area below the spinous process. the entire distance from the bottom of the spinous process to the top of the deer (skin and all) can easily be 5 inches, more than enough to leave room for the arrow to appear "under the spine" to many people.




Here's the void...above the spine


 

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silentassassin

you can believe whatever you want to believe, that doesn't make it true
Lol, thank you stealthy I haven't laughed that hard in a long time! The irony of you telling someone that was more than I could bare:fit: No, I'm sure you're right (because you always are) and how could a veterinarian know more about animal anatomy than you much less a dumb ole rednceck like me:whistle: Thanks man I was already having a good day but that just sealed it:up:
 

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and as always, you produce nothing that in any way, shape or form shows the mythical "void"

me?

I gave you pictures and a bit of an explanation as well ........ look there have been dozens of threads about this void and many highly qualified people talking on the subject and posting why it doesn't exist. Bowsite is the best place to find these discussions BTW

Maybe I just read a lot more than you silent? Maybe I'm open to learning if I'm right or wrong about things? I dunno .... bottom line is there is no void, the lungs are immediately below the spinal column, you don't have to like it, agree with it or believe it, but it IS true

can you shoot about the spine and not break it/kill the deer? yes
can you shoot a deer through the lungs and not kill it? yes I believe you can
Is there a way to shoot into the lung cavity and NOT hit lungs? maybe yes

can you shoot below the spine and above the lung cavity? absolutely not - factually proven
 

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and as always, you produce nothing that in any way, shape or form shows the mythical "void"

me?

I gave you pictures and a bit of an explanation as well ........ look there have been dozens of threads about this void and many highly qualified people talking on the subject and posting why it doesn't exist. Bowsite is the best place to find these discussions BTW

Maybe I just read a lot more than you silent? Maybe I'm open to learning if I'm right or wrong about things? I dunno .... bottom line is there is no void, the lungs are immediately below the spinal column, you don't have to like it, agree with it or believe it, but it IS true

can you shoot about the spine and not break it/kill the deer? yes
can you shoot a deer through the lungs and not kill it? yes I believe you can
Is there a way to shoot into the lung cavity and NOT hit lungs? maybe yes
can you shoot below the spine and above the lung cavity? absolutely not - factually proven
OK....well you just made the point right there Stealthy....

If you can shoot into the lung cavity and not get lung, THEN in deed you are hitting a spot VOID of vital tissue...therefore not killing the deer.....
Lungs deflate when you exhale and don't completely fill the cavity....I think alot of deer exhale when they are "jumping the string" and the lungs don't end up with a hole thru them.....
So THANK YOU for contridicting yourself and proving even if there is not a constant void....there is sometimes.....
 

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Arrows do strange things sometimes. It looks like the exit is higher than the entry, is that right? You said you were in a tree, so that would most likely have to be something weird right there.

I lost a buck this year myself that I still cant get my head around. Saw the arrow go in good, good looking blood, but terrible blood trail that dissipated without a dead deer.:smack:

Similarly, I have a doe that I videoed my buddy shooting. She was perfectly broadside, and the shot was great. She whirled as the arrow passed through her, and it was just barely hanging out her butt. Who knows?
 

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I guess that is true John !


Houdini - that isn't the mystical void - some people thing there is an open area between the lungs and the spine. There isn't - again if you go and read all the threads and proof given its obvious

you ARE sending an arrow into the lung cavity - not the void. Can you NOT hit lungs? I think its almost an impossibility ..... but like Hobbshunter says, arrows do WEIRD things




but there is no gap - that is factual
 

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but there is no gap - that is factual
Are you sure? Have you inspected the insides of every deer or are you basing this off the assumption that every animal is exactly the same and the size of the lung is exactly the same and contracts exactly the same and or is static and doesn't change? You sure there isn't a small void created when the animal inhales? You sure that every deer is anotomically an exact replica of every other deer with the exact same size chest cavity and lungs? EXACTLY! The answer is no though you wouldn't admit if your loved ones life depended on it. You are making assumptions and passing them off as facts but I think everyone is familiar with your modus operandi. But you are correct you did provide a picture:clap: and you are also correct that I'm not going to waste my time trying to come up ways to convince you that you're wrong because I don't believe anything short of Jesus Christ appearing and telling you could do so and I have serious doubts about that. I just like to help point out to people that they should take you with a grain of salt:whistle:
 
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