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Proposed 4 point rule in the Delta, vote for the option you like the best.

  • Go to the 4 point regulation.

    Votes: 22 28.9%
  • Go to a 4X4 slot.

    Votes: 10 13.2%
  • Go to the first deer buck of choice, and then 4 on one side.

    Votes: 21 27.6%
  • Take all the antler restrictions away.

    Votes: 23 30.3%
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok guys here are the zones the proposed 4 point regulation will be affecting this coming year. As the game and fish knows and was told in all the meetings I have attended, these upper zones have different seasons than the zones in southeast Arkansas and in my opinion shouldn't be regulated any further. Also many have stated it's time to change the 3 point rule. Here in Northeast Arkansas, or at least in my area I feel we have some high grading going on and we need to take some of the screwed up rack deer out of the herd which includes the 3 and 4 year old big bodies spikes and 4 points. As it has been said and several articles have been posted by folks that really study deer management, most of them say antler point restrictions only work for a short period of time, they should never be left in place year after year.

With all that said I have left the 3 point regulation off the poll and I also left the one buck limit off the poll. So here is what is left to vote on, so please vote and tell us why you chose the one you did. Thanks

Implement the 4 point reg.
Implement a 4X4 slot reg.
Implement a 1st buck of Choice & Second buck with Antler restrictions reg.
Implement Reg. with No antler restrictions.
 

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And may I add DM if you do not mind, some may agree, some may not, but


IF YOU DO NOT OWN LAND, HUNT LAND, OR HAVE A DIRECT VESTED INTEREST IN THE ABOVE MENTIONED ZONES LISTED PLEASE DO NOT ENTER THIS POLL or COMMENT HERE IN!

Folk's, this is an issue that at present only affects the zones mentioned. It, as presented at present has NO bearing upon the Southwest, West, West Central, Northwest or North Central parts of Arkansas. Only those people who have a vested interest in lands that lay within the defined zones listed in the Northeast, East Central, and Southeast parts are affected by this proposed reg at this time & only they should vote & comment on it on this poll.

The advisory committee was set up to represent these listed area's & the people laying inside of them. The staff meetings that were held were also made up of personal of the G&F that serve this area & the people laying inside of them. So if due process is to be served like it was suppose to have been done, let the people express their desires from this area also.

Here lays the problem in all of this. We have way to many people in this state that are sitting in their un-affected areas giving their 2cts worth about what should happen some where else. If these people feel so strongly about this issue maybe they should start a campain to get them enacted in their areas. As for now let the folks with a vested direct interest in Zones 4, 4A, 5, 5A, 9, 16, 16A, and 17 have their say.
 

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Why leave off the one buck system or keep it the same with the 3pt rule? Still trying to get the results YOU want... Thats whats wrong here. Get the zones correct too. YOU left 1 off I can see. If your gonna do it do it right not half way.......Or YOU still trying to get the results YOU want? Where are these articles about short term fix? By the other poll you put 3 of the top 4 and the last place finisher. I take it thats ya'll agenda.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Jack, we brought the one buck limit up at the advisory team meetings and the guys with the money about lost it, they didn't want a one buck limit no more than we want a 4 point rule.

The 3 point rule was left off cause in many people opinion it has ran it's course and if the MS State studies are correct and APR are a short term fix then three point rule needs changing.
 

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Why leave off the one buck system or keep it the same? Still trying to get the results YOU want... Thats whats wrong here
No Jackall, it is not wrong but totally correct based upon the results of the system the G&F set up to address this issue.DM is basing the choices based upon what came out of the official meetings & that only. Now do we want to stay within the official system set forth or not? The official system was set up in the first place to modify the current 3 point reg we have at present & to take another course of action. That was done & the results of that system the Advisory Committee's and the Staff Meetings came up with the options 1st buck of choice/2cd with reg's or a 4X4 reg as the 2 top options. The option of a 1 buck limit was brought up but was totally opposed to by a very vocal group at the meetings therefore was not put upon the table as a suggested option. The reg's about the 4 point issue & the No reg's issue was disscussed & considered but were way down the list, but were still open suggestions on the table at the meetings and had some support therefore should be listed.

Now with all that in mind, like I said, if we are to stay within the official system set forth by the G&F to find another option other than the 3 point reg we operate under the choices are what? Cannot be the 3 point reg because that what they wanted to get away from! Cannot be the 1 buck limit because it was not officially on the table! That only leaves the 4 other options that were officially considered at the officially held meetings that can be considered at all if we are to officially stay within the official system!

I don't have a problem with DM's options based upon the premise we are still suppose to be operating within the official system.
 

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So because 1 group was against it the 1 buck limit it doesn't make it, you just said it was brought up and you should title it if the agfc was to change it from the 3pt rule what do you like. Include the correct zones too. Get your stuff together if your trying to run a unbiased poll. If not I see your agenda.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Jack it's kinda like this 4 point deal, the big money guys are for it and will probably get their way, unless we show up in force and do all we can to stop it. And they are so much against the one buck limit you know that won't even be considered. The reason being is they don't want to grow the big giant bucks and then not be allowed to shoot but one, you know they ain't going for that. If they can get a meeting with the commission behind closed doors you know they won't let the one buck limit happen.
 

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Dodge, I'm kinda behind on all the details of this and have a couple questions.
Is this issue from g&f being put out there with the options of buck of choice,stay with 3pt....ect or is it just a 4pt proposal without any options and they are being added by fourm members?
 

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Heck I think lets go with the dang 4 point rule on one side as long as we can shoot does. This is what all these supporters of it are wanting us meat hunters to do any how.

Heck most of the ones supporting or pushing the 4 point rule are actually too damn lazy or don't have the stamia to really go after a mature antler buck any how. So that just leaves even more big mature bucks for the ones who were taking them before antler restrictions.:whistle:
 

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I support the 4pt rule and voted for it. Seriously they large clubs have more apr's than that. They have spread and mainbeams regs too. Most of the hunters I know support the 4pt rule. I just think you poll has an agenda to promote what you want. As you see in the other polls there will never be a system that everyone agrees on, but the AGFC has to implement regs that people can live with. The people really should not be involved in management setting anyway. Neither I nor you have a degree in Biology. You are pushing for the buck of choice and aprs on the 2nd buck. Why do you think this is a sound management practice? Do you not think that opens the door to the slaughter of 1.5 yo bucks? If so then why not? I think it would. These are the deer the AGFC are trying to protect right? If the AGFC wants to futher reduce the amount of 1.5 yo's killed why do you think they would want to adopt the first buck of choice. Seriously. You two seem so consumed to buck the system. The poll really should say for or against not 4 options
 

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4 Point

I think that having a point regulation is stupid the AGFC is off there rocker. If they wouuld pay attention to the surronding states they might learn something. But if they are going to put a 4 point rule in effect then there better be some does in there also and why is everybody worried about the adults. Why aren't we worried about the kids they have to abid by the same rules and that is a bunch of BS the kids regs should stay the same as the youth hunt all year long they should never have to abid by our rules until they reach 16 yrs old.
 

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So because 1 group was against it the 1 buck limit it doesn't make it, you just said it was brought up and you should title it if the agfc was to change it from the 3pt rule what do you like. Include the correct zones too. Get your stuff together if your trying to run a unbiased poll. If not I see your agenda.
5.) Change the antler restrictions from a 3-point rule to a 4-point rule for
Crowley’s Ridge and the Delta regions (Deer Zones 4, 4A, 4B, 5, 5A, 5B, 9,
16, 16A and 17).

Allright. give the man a break. Below is right out of the Management Plan! I don't think leaving out Zones 4B and 5B which are located right in the middle of all the others are a sign of bias! And by the way, I had to go back to DM's originial thread to get this info. Seems the link on the G&F site to the management plan now reads "Page Not Avaliable" when you click on it!:head:



And they are so much against the one buck limit you know that won't even be considered. The reason being is they don't want to grow the big giant bucks and then not be allowed to shoot but one, you know they ain't going for that.
And againest it they were. If I remember right, the 1 buck limit was brought up as a proposed option after a discussion about going to a 4 point reg took place. The ones who were for the 4 point rule allmost got up on the table in protest againest it. No way, no how they would be in favor of such. One guy in the 4 point corner even went as far as saying he thought that the buck limit should be raised in his zone if it went to a 4 point reg. I think he said it was zone 17 he had a vested interest and maybe DM can remember, was he not a private biologist rep. from one of the timber companies I think? He didn't get much support on his issue from the majority of people there, but he did get support from a couple of people that have large commercial operations in other area's in the Delta that were present.

I don't know, but reading between the lines here it appears that some involved here may have other reason for wanted this done. You know, kinda like having more of the bigger to sell at the higher price!

I am kinda like DM. The money guys will most likely get their way unless we have a show of force to prevent it. They got their 4 point reg put front & center in the Management plan when it was way back in the pack at the meetings & when the smoke clears, don't be suprised when it is all said & done they end up getting the 4 point reg & an extra buck above what everyone else gets.

All I can say is it sounds like you guys that lease land from some of these folks had better start saving some $$$$. The price to play is fixing to go up big time!
 

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Heck I think lets go with the dang 4 point rule on one side as long as we can shoot does. This is what all these supporters of it are wanting us meat hunters to do any how.

Heck most of the ones supporting or pushing the 4 point rule are actually too damn lazy or don't have the stamia to really go after a mature antler buck any how. So that just leaves even more big mature bucks for the ones who were taking them before antler restrictions.:whistle:
Kinda arrogant in your assumptions ain't ya? Or is that just a typical reaction to looking at a poll that's not going your way at the time? Never mind the fact that APR's are not about trophy management and big deer, maybe the ones that support them really do put the deer herd before their needs.

You now it could be just as easily said that the ones against the APR's and wanting no antler restrictions, a first buck of choice or a 4x4 slot (in your words) "are actually too damn lazy or don't have the stamia to really go after a mature antler buck any how." or maybe they just lack the patience to set in a stand, let a few walk and wait on that mature deer.
 

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maybe the ones that support them really do put the deer herd before their needs.
First off I seriously doubt this is the issue. Most want more bigger bucks, so here again it is a "I WANT" issue. If you want more of something the only effective way to do it is by reducing the bag limit plain and simple.

Arrogant not really just based on my own observations. I have hunted on strictly managed club land before to aid in the help of removing does for them. Yes they usually each take a nice buck every year from that club. But after hunting with them I just laugh at how they hunt, and know dang well if someone would put forth some effort there in hunting it would be amazing what they would kill. If this place was not strictly managed to produce MORE bigger bucks these individuals would never harvest anything. Heck they get jealeous of me because they have prime hunting ground and strict management guidelines and can't take anything better than I what take off public land and unmanaged private land.

But too many deer hunters hunt just like this. They get there Thursday or Friday to their camp or cabin. Unload their ATV take a ride to there stand over looking a food plot of feeder and if it is afeeder usually fill the thing up. Then ride back in to camp/cabin eat supper fellowship and back up at 0300/0400 everyone heads out to there perment stand at least an hour before daylight on their ATV. Stay in the stand until about 0800/0900 and then head back to camp/cabin. They hang around or maybe head out to help some one else maybe retrieve a deer they shot. then about 1500 jump back on the ATV and head back to then stand to sit till dark. Then repeat everything the same way the next day and so on.
This is pretty much the pattern on the majority of hunters whether they are trophy hunters or meat hunters.
The problem is any deer older than 1.5 years old already knows how this game is played and has patterned these hunters.

Mature bucks do not get mature by hanging out at food plots and feeders.

So it kinda of goes this way if you took offense to previous post then apparently there might be some truth to that post.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
It's not a matter of hunters being lazy, it's a matter of opportunity and enjoyment, isn't that the mission statement for the game and fish?

Is a hunter wrong to want to go out and shoot a buck, as we know many of the folks on this board are extreme hunts.

If you live here in NE Arkansas you either bow hunt or you're in a lease down south or somewhere and have a 4 hour drive to go gun deer hunting, so if these guys get to go 3 or 4 times a year then they're doing good. With that said how much enjoyment is it going to be when the whole state has a 4 point rule and they see a monster 6 point and can't shoot it.

Opportunity and enjoyment has been taken away from them, that ain't right and yall know it isn't.
 

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So it kinda of goes this way if you took offense to previous post then apparently there might be some truth to that post.
Again this could work the other way as well......couldn't it?

All I'm saying is the
"are actually too damn lazy or don't have the stamia to really go after a mature antler buck any how."
is a shoe that fits many different feet on both sides. So you can't just throw it one way to suit your needs.
 
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