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Discussion Starter #1
Has anyone heard when the new Suzuki and Yamaha's are coming out? I've read a little about them but can't really find much anyone have any info?
 

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The new suzuki is on their website. Weight is down to about 140lbs for the 25 and 30 hp. Haven't heard much about the new yamaha yet.
 

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The only thing that I know of Yamaha's new F25 is that it is officially going to be introduced.

When-they did not say. What is it? They also did not say.

The rep did, however, ask me what I thought about suzuki's new 25. And of course I mentioned that I loved it. Rep said he "thought" that Yamaha should be able to blow the zuke away based on what he's seen. That is ALL of the info I've gotten, thus far.

I'm guessing later this year or early 2015. I'm anxious. Very anxious, especially considering that mine has been awesome, but if the new one is "that much better", I'm gonna have to get my hands on one.

I hope to see it with a black cowling like the Vmax SHO's have (MAYBE an SHO 25hp?). I'd also like to see 3 cylinder with variable valve timing for the holeshot, but it might be a little heavy with VCT/VVT. Additionally, I'd like to see batteryless EFI like the MX bikes currently are using. Yamaha knows how to do it and make it live a long happy life. I'm thinking out loud here, but wishing that I'd get one as a demo. Fat chance on that. I know Yamaha. Nobody will know a single detail until it's released to the dealers. Kinda like Apple.

Who knows. They might do up a 2 stroke with DI? With Yamaha, there is no telling. The current 25 hp is a total joke. Same powerhead as the 98 through 2006 models. Those were 140 lbs. The new ones (08 and newer) are almost 180 lbs. Where did 40 lbs come from? And why? THe flywheel is different, starter different, and intake manifold/cylinder head different. Much of the rest of it is basically the same motor and it doesn't run any different. Perhaps slightly smoother-but not much. It is like the General Motors trucks. LONG overdue for a redesign.
 

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The only thing that I know of Yamaha's new F25 is that it is officially going to be introduced.

When-they did not say. What is it? They also did not say.

The rep did, however, ask me what I thought about suzuki's new 25. And of course I mentioned that I loved it. Rep said he "thought" that Yamaha should be able to blow the zuke away based on what he's seen. That is ALL of the info I've gotten, .
So, are u saying that u have seen/ran one of the new suzuki's that are to be released this spring or are u saying that u love it based on the info in the press release?
 

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The info I'm getting suggest the zuki will release sometime this month. I have no idea if that's accurate or if the supply on hand will be enough to reach the market here. From what I've read/heard, the motor will be a vast improvement and probably be a leader in the 4stroke lineup till something else comes out. It's been very clear that no one other than tohatsu has put any money into R&D on the smaller motors till just recently. The flip side to that is the lessons learned on the larger engines will be applied to the newly released portables. As for tohatsu, the rumor is that they are breaking into the big motor lineup with engines going up to 250hp. Who knows, the market will be an interesting watch if these rumors hold any water.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
From what I've heard Yamaha has lightened their weight to a point they're having problems with the motor holding together, who knows. I've always been a Yamaha guy so I'd like to wait on the Yamaha but wouldn't mind trying a zuke
 

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A new 25 hasn't been released...to anyone...yet (that I know of). To my knowledge, nobody has broken a new 25 yet. The 225's and some of the bass boat motors are a different story, but then again, tournament fishing does have a crowd of folks who are die-hard, will run over anything and everything...and stuff breaks. I understand that thinking since I used to be one of those guys. Now I gotta pay for my own stuff..........

If I get any more info, I'll post it up. I spent a couple days last year with a Yamaha service rep going over the current 25, explaining how it was the heaviest slowest 25 on the market, which put sales down in our area. Explained to him that if the 25 was going to be "popular" here, it's gonna have to go on a diet and get smoother. The current 2 cylinder engine isn't real smooth at certain RPM's. Additionally, the current 2 cylinder engine is entirely too heavy (as I explained before)...part of the reason is it's firing sequence. Both pistons are at TDC and BDC at the same time, they are on the same plane to create a true 360° firing order. The 360° split between cylinder firing makes slightly more torque at lower speeds, which is exactly what an outboard needs. BUT the downside is the counterweight in the back of the crankcase. It's basically a dummy piston that weighs about 10 lbs which offsets the weight of both pistons moving in the same direction at the same time, thereby smoothing the engine out as much as it can.

With it being a parallel twin, theoretically it "could" be made into a cross plane crankshaft, where one piston moves in the exact opposite direction of the other, similar to a 250, 500, or 650 Kawasaki Ninja (and many twin cyl. diesels). The advantage is that it doesn't need a slug in the back of the crankcase. The DISadvantage is that it doesn't lend itself to any appreciable low end torque without upping the displacement of the engine, which then adds weight. Especially with a single carburetor (to keep it simple and inexpensive).

What I "think" we'll see is a new Yamaha F25 that would be like the days of old, where for a couple years there are 2 different 25's. One being the "new" one (what I will call an SHO 25hp) and the "old" (current) one. I "think" the new one is going to be a small 3 cylinder engine with variable cam timing on the intake camshaft only. I may be wrong. The advantage would be using a much smaller displacement engine-therefore lighter, quieter, and smoother, yet retaining an acceptable amount of low end torque without sacrificing top end horsepower. If that's the case, a custom tune on the EFI's ECU can make things work slightly differently...perhaps a bit more top end power or perhaps a bit more low end...who knows until we actually see it. EFI it will be for sure. Carburetors are about dead nowdays, they just cant run clean enough for EPA standards. And since fuel quality favors EFI engines, it'll also eliminate clogged jets in a bowl that fuel might sit in for months. The disadvantage is that now we have a VST-vapor separator tank-which houses the electric high pressure fuel pump that feeds the injectors....and when old fuel takes out the VST "sock" (pump filter), the pump fails not long after, and the injector screens get plugged with failing pump debris. That means a $75 carb rebuild just turned into a $750 EFI rebuild. On 2 stroke EFI engines, when the same thing happens, it's not unheard of to take out a powerhead (ETEC, HPDI, etc).

I can't let out any info on the zuke other than what is already on the website. But I'm not a zuke fan, and I like it. I believe that the rep asked me about the zuke because he wanted to know what kind of feedback to give to the engineers. I gave him 2 days of feedback already. Let's hope my feedback makes a difference.

The current 25, without PT&T, cannot be tilted manually. You have to stand up in the motor well (where the tank sits) and put all your weight into it. That's absolutely ridiculous. I explained that to our rep. Not long after, the F40's tilt assist became standard on the long shaft 25's. Also just before that, the F25 went from being considered a "portable" to a "midrange", as listed on the Yamaha-motor website. So I know my griping at least did something. Not much, but every little bit helps.

The previous F25 was 140 lbs, new ones are 40 lbs heavier. Same motor basically. I for one do not understand why it got so fat? To my knowledge the old F25's (up to '06/7) were considered nearly bulletproof as long as they weren't run low on oil or the boater went jetty jumping. It got a bad rep of being slow and heavy early on. Compared to what? A 2 stroke? Heavy-yes. Slow-they ran exactly the same MPH if you put the 2 stroke prop on it. They still come with a 9 7/8 x 10.5 prop, and the new ones, with the different intake manifold, really should have come with the 11 1/4" 2 stroke prop from the get-go. The 10.5 on a 548 War Eagle is on the limiter (6200 RPM), mounted on the transom with no spacer and no PT&T. I guess if a guy had a few hundred lbs of deke's, tackle, another hunter or angler with him, it would be a little better matched....perhaps that was what they were banking on (heavy loads?) when it was originally designed in 1998? I don't know.

That said, I prefer the older ones. A manual starter can be added with zero other changes. The new ones, the cowling has to be changed as there is no hole for the rope assembly. And the older ones were lighter. That is what I have (2000 model F25ESHY). Great motor-just wish it was more up-to-date.

If given the chance, I'd LOVE to demo a new "SHO" (as I call it). Fat chance I ever get the opportunity.
 

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Some good info there JYW.

I, for one am anxiously waiting on the introduction of both the new Suzuki and Yamaha motors. I have a basically brand new 25ELH 2-stroke Yamaha on my rig now, and I had planned to tach it and replace the factory prop with a SS prop. Now that I'm hearing about these new 4-strokes coming out, I'm tempted to wait and see what hits the market before I drop the money on a new prop that I may not need. Conservative by nature, I've always been a little cautious about buying a new gadget when it first comes out just to give them time to work the bugs out, but knowing the reputation both Suzuki and Yamaha have, I don't think they would put junk out there just to be the first on the market.
 
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