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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Marlin 338 Express ???

I was watching a shooting program over the weekend. The host of the show was interviewing a representative from Hornady. The rep said Hornady was currently working with Marlin on a new cartridge that would be called the 338 Marlin Express. It will supposedly shoot a 200 grain bullet around 2600 feet per sec. Has anyone heard anything about this new cartridge and rifle? If you have, please share your info. Sounds like a new cartridge I might actually be interested in. Especially, if it comes in a lever gun.

Thanks,

Ken
 

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Man, there's a new cartridge coming out every fifteen minutes nowadays. The specs on this one sound promising, especially in a lever gun. .338 bullet selections are gaining, too. Haven't heard a thing about it, but I'll keep an ear out. Maybe some of our better-funded shooters have tried it? Anybody?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Man, there's a new cartridge coming out every fifteen minutes nowadays. The specs on this one sound promising, especially in a lever gun. .338 bullet selections are gaining, too. Haven't heard a thing about it, but I'll keep an ear out. Maybe some of our better-funded shooters have tried it? Anybody?
Flintknapper,

I agree there seems to be so many new cartridges coming out at such a fast rate that it’s hard to keep up with them all. After doing some research on most of them it doesn’t take long to see there is no real merit to the new cartridge. Usually just a bunch of sales hype pushing an old idea pretty much duplicating a old cartridge that didn’t make it in the past. But now it has a new name and maybe a new 10 grain lighter soft tipped bullet that has to be fired from a new model rifle with a 4 in. longer barrel to achieve similar velocity of a cartridge that didn’t make it in the past. 307 Winchester and 308 Marlin Express is a good example. I wonder what the 307 Win would have done ballisticly with a 10 grain lighter bullet with a higher coefficient from a 4 in. longer barrel?

I have to admit I was pretty excited when I first heard about the 338 Marlin Express. After thinking about it though there are almost no bullets that I can think of in 338 cal with flat points that could be used to reload for the 338 Marlin Express for a tube fed lever gun. If I would be limited to special bullets that aren’t available to the public and a 4 in. longer barrel to achieve the quoted velocities from the Hornady Rep I’ll pass on this new cartridge too. Using lighter bullets and longer barrel to make velocity claims for a new cartridge is dishonest trickery at best in my view.

Ruger, on the other hand came out with a new 338 cartridge that achieves the same velocity as the 338 Winchester with a 4in. shorter barrel. Not a 4 in. longer barrel. And with exactly the same bullets. That is a honest achievement worthy of mentioning without the trickery.

Now if we could only get some new lever gun cartridges with real improvements without all the dishonest trickery.

Ken
 

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I don’t think Hornady is using dishonesty with their velocities on the leverevolution ammo. They use a 24" barrel for their velocities and that is matched up with marlins xlr rifles with 24" barrel. For the most part, the velocities are real close to advertised. Go and grab some Remington corlokt or winchester powerpoint ammo for a 30-06 and shoot it over a chronograph, just be ready for some disappointment. And as for being compact, the 24" barrel marlin is about the same length as a 22" barreled savage/remington there really isnt much difference if you are comparing rifle to rifle. Then rugers "compact" rifle is the same overall length as marlins rifle with a 22" barrel.

I think the 338 marlin is going to fit a void in marlins lineup. They now will have a rifle that is more than capable of elk size animals out to 300 yards. They just dont have anything else that comes close (other than the 308 marlin and some feel that it is a bit small for elk even though it has killed a few).

I have been talking with people at Hornady and it sounds like they will release more information on the 338 marlin in late November or early December so its not going to be available this hunting season.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I don’t think Hornady is using dishonesty with their velocities on the leverevolution ammo. They use a 24" barrel for their velocities and that is matched up with marlins xlr rifles with 24" barrel. For the most part, the velocities are real close to advertised. Go and grab some Remington corlokt or winchester powerpoint ammo for a 30-06 and shoot it over a chronograph, just be ready for some disappointment. And as for being compact, the 24" barrel marlin is about the same length as a 22" barreled savage/remington there really isnt much difference if you are comparing rifle to rifle. Then rugers "compact" rifle is the same overall length as marlins rifle with a 22" barrel.

I think the 338 marlin is going to fit a void in marlins lineup. They now will have a rifle that is more than capable of elk size animals out to 300 yards. They just dont have anything else that comes close (other than the 308 marlin and some feel that it is a bit small for elk even though it has killed a few).

I have been talking with people at Hornady and it sounds like they will release more information on the 338 marlin in late November or early December so its not going to be available this hunting season.
Jbadams,

I believe dishonesty and trickery is exactly what Hornady used to promote their Leverevolution ammo. Marlin coming out with a line of 24 in barreled XLR rifles at the same time as their Leverevolution ammo wasn’t an accident. Hornady and Marlin teamed up and were working on the new XLR rifles and Leverevolution ammo together at exactly the same time. The Leverevolution ammo would not be much of an improvement without the new 24 in barreled XLR rifles. If any improvement at all.

I also realize that many ammo manufactures lie about the velocity of their ammo. Actually it isn’t a all out lie. They are actually using the same dishonesty and trickery as Marlin. Meaning, that the ammo manufactures are using longer barrels than normal on their test rifles to measure their quoted velocity.

It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that a 4 in longer barrel and 10 grain lighter bullet with the same cartridge does not equal greater performance from the same cartridge. Higher velocity can be achieved from any cartridge using the same formula. A 10 grain lighter flat point bullet from a 4 in longer barrel would also show a big improvement in velocity. That does not equate to a new improved wonder cartridge.

When I was comparing barrel lengths versus a new cartridge I was comparing Marlins to Marlins. 20 in 336 30-30 barrel with 170 grain flat point bullet to the new 24 in barreled XLR rifles with a 160 grain bullet. The quoted velocity of the new 30-30 Leverevolution ammo is based on the new lighter 160 grain bullet from a new 24 in barreled XLR rifle. My point is there is really not much of an improvement with the new Leverevolution ammo without the lighter bullet and longer barrel. It is using a lighter bullet and longer barrel that is making the real velocity differences. Not a new improved cartridge.

Actually talking about long range shooting with a lever gun is a little silly any way. If long range shooting is what someone has in mind any lever gun is a poor choice in comparison to other available rifle types. I’m not knocking lever guns. I own 6 of them ranging from 22 LR to 45-70. I’m also not knocking Marlins. I love them and own 4 of them. After hunting with Marlins for years and seeing many hogs and deer killed with a 336 30-30 and 35 Remington I see no real advantage to the new Leverevolution ammo or the rifles designed to shoot it. In the real world of hunting the advantage is just about nothing.

I can see some merit in a new Marlin 338 Express. Not as a longer range cartridge, but for more knock down and penetration power for larger game. But if the public is limited to only using Leverevolution type ammo from a newly designed rifle with a longer barrel than I see no advantage. To much knock down power already available with Marlin’s 45-70 and 450 Marlin with a large variety of barrel lengths and bullet selection for the reloader.

I have no intention of owning a Ruger compact magnum in the new Ruger 338 Ruger cartridge. I really have no need for one. But after saying that I am impressed that Ruger actually came up with a cartridge that is actually an improvement. With no trickery of using different bullet design, lighter bullets, or longer barrels to achieve the quoted improvements. In fact you can use exactly the same bullets being used in any other 338 cal rifle and still achieve the same improvement. Plus you can achieve the same velocities as a 338 Win mag with a shorter barrel, not a longer barrel.

Isn’t it great that we can all have our opinions.

Ken
 

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Not only do the ammo manufacturers use longer barrels, they also use tighter chambers which contributes to the higher velocities. Probably 99% of the velocities you see listed will never be achieved from standard hunting guns. The only round that I can recall shooting over the chrono and actually seeing higher than published velocity is the 17 HMR, it is listed at 2550 FPS and my two rifles actually chrono'd a little over 2600 FPS.

Lots of people get hung up on high velocity and magnumitis, but it just doesn't take that much to kill an Arkansas whitetail. Sure, I have been in the magnum crowd, but the last few years my son and I have carried the 30/30, 35 Rem, 45/70 and 243 more than anything. We haven't failed to bring home the venison yet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Not only do the ammo manufacturers use longer barrels, they also use tighter chambers which contributes to the higher velocities. Probably 99% of the velocities you see listed will never be achieved from standard hunting guns. The only round that I can recall shooting over the chrono and actually seeing higher than published velocity is the 17 HMR, it is listed at 2550 FPS and my two rifles actually chrono'd a little over 2600 FPS.

Lots of people get hung up on high velocity and magnumitis, but it just doesn't take that much to kill an Arkansas whitetail. Sure, I have been in the magnum crowd, but the last few years my son and I have carried the 30/30, 35 Rem, 45/70 and 243 more than anything. We haven't failed to bring home the venison yet.
Mr Chitlin,

I agree with the high velocity and mag itis in this country. That is exactly why Marlin advertised their cartridge the way they did. Knowing that a higher velocity would catch eyes and ears.

I’ve also been down the mag itis road. Had lots of fun shooting and reloading for magnum rifles and hand guns. Although I had lots of fun doing it I also learned that magnum rifles weren’t necessary for killing most large game in this country let alone this state. Most large game killed in this country is killed at 100 yards or less. I’ve discovered that a factory iron sighted pre 64 model 94 in 32 Win special I own will be all I’ll ever need for most big game in this state and this country. I’ve read so many stories about the puny little inadequate 30-30 and yet I’ve personally never seen it fail if the monkey standing behind it had much sense about using it.

Most people with flat shooting long range rifles will still never be able to kill anything past 300 yards anyway. Most people never practice shooting at 4 or 5 hundred yards. If they did they would soon realize long range shooting requires a lot more than just a flat shooting rifle to hit what their shooting at, at long range. Myself and some friends used to shoot at 1 gal milk jugs filled with water at 500 yards. I was shooting a custom 338 Rem ultra mag. 200 and 250 grain bullets at around 3,000 ft per sec. Extremely flat shooting rifle. The bullets would still drop 20 to 30 some inches at 500 yards with a 200 yard zero. The windage would be as far off as 36 inches with fairly normal winds. The windage could vary as much as 12 inches from shot to shot because of the wind shifting slightly between shots. Most people buying a flat shooting rifle have no clue what to do with them past about 200 yards which is a distance within the means of lots of non magnum rifles. I still own a magnum rifle. A older 300 H&H model 70 that shoots an honest sub MOA with 180 grain Nosler Partitions at a chronographed 2,950 per sec. My 25-06 has nearly the same trajectory though with a 120 grain bullet with a lot less recoil.
 

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So true. We compete at 300 yards and 300 meters shooting 8" and 12" plates, and you can tell those that practice and those that don't. I had a guy tell me one time he shot a deer at 250 yards on our property. I asked him to show me where he was and walked to where the deer was. It measured 76 yards with the rangefinder.

I figure a lot of deer killed at 300 + yards are actually killed at more like 100 - 150.
 

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This has been real interesting to read. Getting back to the lever gun issues, I wonder if Hornady will ever release their spongy-tip bullets as components for reloaders? If I had some pointy bullets for my lever guns, I'd go nuts working up loads for 'em. As for the loaded ammo, I've got a box of leverevolutions for my .35 remington, but I've not shot a one yet.

There may be a disease worse than magnumitis, it's called having more guns than I've got time to go play with! :smack:

I'm pretty sure it's terminal, too, because I plan to die with it (hopefully not from it). :biggrin:

I need more range time!
 

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I have heard that Hornady says they will release the poly tipped bullets when the catch up with production. Someone (Nosler, Speer, etc) is missing the boat by not releasing a soft tipped bullet for the lever guns. I bet the handloaders would buy them up about as fast as the could ship them out the door.

I just traded into a 336C/35 this past fall. The guy threw in a box of LE ammo for it, but I haven't shot any of it, and really don't plan to at this time.
 
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