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I think it's B.S. for the whole state. I think that's the reason that the G&F went to the on-line checking system, instead of having check stations where people could check the results for their countys.
 

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jhw, what's the angle, how does that benefit AGFC?
As long as they can show the kill numbers are rising or at least aren't dropping off they can keep the hunters banging away at the deer so they can reduce the herd numbers for the insurance companies. When responsible hunters start seeing the harvest numbers drop they'll demand a change in season structure.
 

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jhw, what's the angle, how does that benefit AGFC?
They are trying to reduce the deer herd. In order to keep the hunters killing a lot of doe, they are posting high numbers, to make hunters think we have more deer than we do. Think about it. The doe kill has been 70,000 to over 80,000 per year, for several years now. With this many doe being taken, we should be seeing a big drop in the overall kill, but instead we are seeing an increase in total kill. If you have 80,000 doe killed this year, and if you figure a 1.5 fawn rate per doe, that means there will be 120,000 fawns not born this spring. Subtract those 120,000 fawns, plus the 80,000 doe that were killed this year, and we will have 200,000 less deer to hunt next fall. Now look at how many years we have had these high doe kills. The numbers that are being posted by the G&F should send up a red flag to all deer hunters.
 

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jhw:1445626 said:
jhw, what's the angle, how does that benefit AGFC?
They are trying to reduce the deer herd. In order to keep the hunters killing a lot of doe, they are posting high numbers, to make hunters think we have more deer than we do. Think about it. The doe kill has been 70,000 to over 80,000 per year, for several years now. With this many doe being taken, we should be seeing a big drop in the overall kill, but instead we are seeing an increase in total kill. If you have 80,000 doe killed this year, and if you figure a 1.5 fawn rate per doe, that means there will be 120,000 fawns not born this spring. Subtract those 120,000 fawns, plus the 80,000 doe that were killed this year, and we will have 200,000 less deer to hunt next fall. Now look at how many years we have had these high doe kills. The numbers that are being posted by the G&F should send up a red flag to all deer hunters.
jhw:1445626 said:
jhw, what's the angle, how does that benefit AGFC?
They are trying to reduce the deer herd. In order to keep the hunters killing a lot of doe, they are posting high numbers, to make hunters think we have more deer than we do. Think about it. The doe kill has been 70,000 to over 80,000 per year, for several years now. With this many doe being taken, we should be seeing a big drop in the overall kill, but instead we are seeing an increase in total kill. If you have 80,000 doe killed this year, and if you figure a 1.5 fawn rate per doe, that means there will be 120,000 fawns not born this spring. Subtract those 120,000 fawns, plus the 80,000 doe that were killed this year, and we will have 200,000 less deer to hunt next fall. Now look at how many years we have had these high doe kills. The numbers that are being posted by the G&F should send up a red flag to all deer hunters.
Unless of course we really do have a million free in the state. With even a 2 to 1 ratio of does to bucks. That's over 600,000 does. Minus 100,000 leaves 500,000 times 1.5 leaves an increase of 750,000. Not saying the nmbers are true but they so make sense if you look at the math.
 

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I think it's B.S. for the whole state. I think that's the reason that the G&F went to the on-line checking system, instead of having check stations where people could check the results for their countys.
Yep, having a written copy & photo's on the wall at the local Mom & Pop check stations was alot harder to get around, now it is simple as hitting Shift, Enter, Alt & Delete!

You right t, they got a vast majority of the deer hunters singing their song right now to the music they are playing and they are:kumbaya: and giving them a :grouphug: not knowing this is a trip to the :rip:!
 

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Yep, having a written copy & photo's on the wall at the local Mom & Pop check stations was alot harder to get around, now it is simple as hitting Shift, Enter, Alt & Delete!

You right t, they got a vast majority of the deer hunters singing their song right now to the music they are playing and they are:kumbaya: and giving them a :grouphug: not knowing this is a trip to the :rip:!
And folks call me crazy for that!:fit:
 

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Unless of course we really do have a million free in the state. With even a 2 to 1 ratio of does to bucks. That's over 600,000 does. Minus 100,000 leaves 500,000 times 1.5 leaves an increase of 750,000. Not saying the nmbers are true but they so make sense if you look at the math.
But that's what doesn't make sense to me. They said we hit a million deer for the firrst time sometime in the mid to late nineties. So why can't we get over that 200,000 harvest total? With all the extra gun season days and extra doe bag limits as compared to '99 we should be going way over that by now. If we had a million deer in the late nineties and we're only killing 180,000 deer a year we should have about 5 million deer by now and killing about a million and a half each year.
 

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Hey AGFC is right now concerned about reducing the deer herd and it is about time maybe a couple decades too late. Now once the der herd numbers drop to a level that you don't hear alot about vehicle collision then we will finally have things back in check maybe. We have learned it is easier to increase deer populations than it is to decrease them.

Also the demographics of alot of hunters are changing to the "I am only out there hunting for a big buck" and every year this crowd is growing meaning fewer deer are going to harvested if you don't increase bag limits and such. The other thing I find very interesting is the FACT it took several decades of unregulated, all day and all night hunting, year round and market to wipe out the deer herds in the nation. So how in the heck can some weekend warriors who only hunt during day time and only during gun season with a set bag limit going to devastate the deer herd in only a few years?

If you ain't seeing now then change your hunting style and try something different, it is amazing how well this has worked for me.
 

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Hey AGFC is right now concerned about reducing the deer herd and it is about time maybe a couple decades too late. Now once the der herd numbers drop to a level that you don't hear alot about vehicle collision then we will finally have things back in check maybe. We have learned it is easier to increase deer populations than it is to decrease them.

Also the demographics of alot of hunters are changing to the "I am only out there hunting for a big buck" and every year this crowd is growing meaning fewer deer are going to harvested if you don't increase bag limits and such. The other thing I find very interesting is the FACT it took several decades of unregulated, all day and all night hunting, year round and market to wipe out the deer herds in the nation. So how in the heck can some weekend warriors who only hunt during day time and only during gun season with a set bag limit going to devastate the deer herd in only a few years?

If you ain't seeing now then change your hunting style and try something different, it is amazing how well this has worked for me.
I don't believe the increase in deer car collisions is due to a rise in deer numbers as much as it is due to more distracted drivers on the roads. 3 out of 4 drivers you see now either have a cell phone in there ear or are looking down texting on one. Also with the high gas prices, highway departments aren't mowing the shoulders of the roads like they used to. Instead of seeing 3 or 4 mowers working in a crew you mostly see 1 and sometimes 2 and no more than a couple times a year. Drivers can't see deer until they're already in the road.
You underestimate the weekend warrior Cday. Look at the harvest reports. They kill thousands of deer everyday of the week during gun season. Now consider there are 300,000 hunters out there with 6 tags each. That's 1,800,000 tags and fewer than a million deer in the state. Give 'em enough gun days and those weekend warriors will get it done. I know it's probably hard for you to believe since you were living in another state at the time and didn't see it happen, but they've already done it with 12 days of bucks only gun season in NEA back in the eighties. It wasn't done by market hunters that was back in the early 1900's season re-opened from that sometime in the 50's or 60's. That's the fact, check it out. We have 11 days of either sex gun days here now. How long you think they'll last?
 

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Hey AGFC is right now concerned about reducing the deer herd and it is about time maybe a couple decades too late. Now once the der herd numbers drop to a level that you don't hear alot about vehicle collision then we will finally have things back in check maybe. We have learned it is easier to increase deer populations than it is to decrease them.
Well, if that is when all will be in harmoney, we may never see that time. There was a thread on here a while back I think titled "Deer hit by car in LR" or something to that effect. What one needs to realize is it is not the deer invading mans world, it is man invading the deers world. It was not long ago where this deer was hit in LR, it was a rural, wooded, non-inhabitated area, now it is sub-division after sub-diviision, strip malls, fast food joints & cars going in every direction. The same can be said about alot of area's now days.That's why we are starting to see som many urban hunts starting now. They are not hunting area's where the original urban area's were decades ago, they are having to hunt the area's in which the urban area's have expanded into over the decades. So the real question here is this, "Is it really an over population of deer into mans world or is it more an issue of over-population of man into the remaining area's of the deer's world" that is causing the real issues?
 

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Well, if that is when all will be in harmoney, we may never see that time. There was a thread on here a while back I think titled "Deer hit by car in LR" or something to that effect. What one needs to realize is it is not the deer invading mans world, it is man invading the deers world. It was not long ago where this deer was hit in LR, it was a rural, wooded, non-inhabitated area, now it is sub-division after sub-diviision, strip malls, fast food joints & cars going in every direction. The same can be said about alot of area's now days.That's why we are starting to see som many urban hunts starting now. They are not hunting area's where the original urban area's were decades ago, they are having to hunt the area's in which the urban area's have expanded into over the decades. So the real question here is this, "Is it really an over population of deer into mans world or is it more an issue of over-population of man into the remaining area's of the deer's world" that is causing the real issues?
It is man invading in to deer habitat but that has been happening for years and yes both populations of humans and deer are increasing. Now which do you think is going to be decreased?
 

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I don't believe the increase in deer car collisions is due to a rise in deer numbers as much as it is due to more distracted drivers on the roads. 3 out of 4 drivers you see now either have a cell phone in there ear or are looking down texting on one. Also with the high gas prices, highway departments aren't mowing the shoulders of the roads like they used to. Instead of seeing 3 or 4 mowers working in a crew you mostly see 1 and sometimes 2 and no more than a couple times a year. Drivers can't see deer until they're already in the road.
You underestimate the weekend warrior Cday. Look at the harvest reports. They kill thousands of deer everyday of the week during gun season. Now consider there are 300,000 hunters out there with 6 tags each. That's 1,800,000 tags and fewer than a million deer in the state. Give 'em enough gun days and those weekend warriors will get it done. I know it's probably hard for you to believe since you were living in another state at the time and didn't see it happen, but they've already done it with 12 days of bucks only gun season in NEA back in the eighties. It wasn't done by market hunters that was back in the early 1900's season re-opened from that sometime in the 50's or 60's. That's the fact, check it out. We have 11 days of either sex gun days here now. How long you think they'll last?
You might need to do some researching it was not the hunters that greatly reduced the deer herd north east Arkansas, it is the constant flooding this region gets. And it is this that is still hurting the deer herd in this region and always will be. This is why they reopened deer hunting in the region is because they couldn't get the deer herd to increase. I got stationed in Arkansas in 1987 and moved back here in 1993 and have hunted the this region every year since. Now I know for a fact the deer herd is increasing up here in north east Mississippi County and we have only one less weekend that you have. I am finding deer in areas that 10 years ago there was none not even a track in the mud, today I have trail camera pictures of deer from areas that most would never believe would have deer. The thing about deer they are the most adaptable species and they will change patterns and home ranges as the habitat and conditions change. I do know that the floods last spring took out several deer up this way, but in all reality the deer fare alot better with spring floods than they do with the winter floods up this way. Also I know the major ice storm has changed alot up this way and if a hunter is still hunting the way he did back before the ice storms then chances of him seeing any deer are very slim. I did not figured that out until late last season, this season my deer observations have really when up compared to the last two seasons.
 

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It is man invading in to deer habitat but that has been happening for years and yes both populations of humans and deer are increasing. Now which do you think is going to be decreased?
Ity will be the deer, but all the deer are being convicted to the same fait because of issue caused by a few. One of the main issues that is bringing this on is deer/human conflicts in the area where population growths by both are taking place. One of the main problems is in these area of human population growth the management of the animals is now not an allowed tool. Hunting is not legal, thus a massive population growth is expected. Now that these levels have risen to a point where some think it has to be curtailed, regulations are being placed into effect to address this, but not just these problem area's but all area's. The problem in this is even these new enhanced reg's will not solve the original problem, they stilll cannot be used where needed, but being in effect everywhere, the masses, when time, go outside these area's where there was not a problem to begin with to exercise their rights given to them, but leaving the original problem un-addressed only to keep getting worst which will promote more knee jerk reations & more enhanced reg's in the future. The only way to truely put a fire out is to spray the water directly on the fire, spraying it around the fire does not solve anything.
 

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Not necessarily true. If you reduce deer populations in neighboring areas below carrying capacities of the habitat, deer in areas of over population will migrate to these areas over time. This is how deer populations spreaded accros states back in the day when several states started reintroducing deer back into areas.
 
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