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I saw where a guy was cited for having an uncased gun on an ATV in Colorado. That sounds like a good idea for Arkansas. We have a big problem on public land with ATV riders carrying loaded guns chasing deer dogs. Not only is this unsafe but messes up still hunters by those hunting off moving ATV's.. Who could get this brought before the commisson?

Thanks
 

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I saw where a guy was cited for having an uncased gun on an ATV in Colorado. That sounds like a good idea for Arkansas. We have a big problem on public land with ATV riders carrying loaded guns chasing deer dogs. Not only is this unsafe but messes up still hunters by those hunting off moving ATV's.. Who could get this brought before the commisson?

Thanks
I think there is a law that you can't shoot from a moving vehicle,It would be a ggod law but we don't havr enough game wardens to watch all the Idiots that would do it anyway.


Afterthought:This told to me by a Game Warden.

I was told you could'nt shooot from your vehicle , that I had to step out of it first and then shoot.Would that not be the same for an Atv?
 

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The AGFC has to be real careful if attempting to require guns to be cased. They tried to require guns to be unloaded and cased in motor vehicles on public roads and were rebuffed by the Arkansas Supreme Court. They might have a better argument with ATVs if the ATV is being operated off a public road, but it is not clear. If they passed a broad reg that said "It is unlawful to carry an uncased fiream while on an ATV" it would likely be struck down.

There is a fine line between regulating hunting and regulating the use and possession of firearms. The regulation would have to be tied to hunting in some way. The AGFC has no authority to regulate the carrying of firearms by those not engaged in hunting. Of course, if you are carrying a firearm in an area likely to have game, there is a legal presumption you are hunting, but you have the opportunity to prove you were not hunting.

I think the ATV reg would likely be constitutional as long as it was limited to persons hunting and you had the ability to try to prove you were not hunting.
 

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I think they like to leave it open and vague so they can right tickets from anything that would fall into the "grey" area on this rule.
Probably so, but hunters deserve some clarity. I helped the ADHA with the drafting of the moving motorized land vehicle rule. It was not intended to include those simply traveling on an ATV to get to a hunting spot. However, I just thought of this potential problem if the AGFC wanted to take a strict stance on guns and ATVs.

Mr. A is riding across a powerline on his ATV to his deerstand on the powerline. Mr. A's .30-06 is unloaded and in a gun case on the ATV. Mr. A is stopped by a Game Warden and ticketed for violating Reg. 18.27 Hunting from a Moving, Motorized Land Vehicle Prohibited. But Mr. A wasn't hunting, he was just traveling to his deer stand.
Was he or was he not?

(1) Was Mr. A in possession of a firearm in an area known to be game cover? Yes. As a result, there is a legal presumption he was hunting. Ark. Code 15-43-105. AGFC Reg 01.00-F.

(2) Was Mr. A on a moving motorized land vehicle? Yes.

(3) As a result of (1) and (2), Mr. A is presumed to be hunting while on a moving motorized land vehicle and in violation of Reg. 18.27.

Mr. A can fight the charge in court and claim he was simply traveling to his deerstand, but that is a poor way to have to defend yourself. This reg needs to be tightened up in my opinion.
 

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HUNT or HUNTING – To search for, pursue, chase, track, lure, attract or lie in wait of game animals or other wildlife for the purpose of taking or attempting to take such game animals or wildlife by any method.
18.27 HUNTING FROM A MOVING, MOTORIZED LAND VEHICLE PROHIBITED.

04-05 It shall be unlawful to hunt or take, attempt to hunt or take, drive or harass any species of wildlife from a moving, motorized land vehicle.

EXCEPTION:

(1) Law enforcement officers and Commission employees in performance of their official job duties.

PENALTY: $250.00 to $1,000.00
Was Mr A. attempting to hunt or preparing to hunt? En route to attempt to hunt?
 

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Was Mr A. attempting to hunt or preparing to hunt? En route to attempt to hunt?
In my opinion, given only those facts, Mr. A was en route to hunt, he was not hunting or attempting to hunt at the time he was stopped. Let's even assume Mr. A was thinking - "I won't uncase and unload my rifle until I am in my deer stand - even if a monster 10 point walks out". :biggrin:

HOWEVER, the AGFC relies on that state statute (15-43-105) and their regulation on possession of weapons to shift the burden of proof onto a defendant to prove he was not hunting. That gives them sufficient authority to issue the ticket and then let you challenge it. It's hard to prove what someone intended, so that statute makes it easier for the AGFC.

Essentially, the AGFC has a prima facie case that you are hunting if you are in possession of a firearm in game cover. That means they do not have to prove anything else to establish that you are hunting. You have to introduce evidence to prove that you were not hunting.

If you are in the woods with a weapon, that is prima facie evidence of hunting. They don't have to prove anything more and you can be found to be hunting solely on that evidence. It's then up to you to prove to a judge/jury that you were not hunting at that time.

Now, hopefully most Game Wardens will take into consideration the circumstances before issuing a ticket (like if you were sighting in at an old shell pit surrounded by woods or your firearm is unloaded and cased on a 4 wheeler), but they don't have to do that.
 

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Another contradiction to the "possession is hunting" thingy???

From the regs...
"Concealed weapon permit holders may carry a modern handgun, but are not allowed to use it for any
hunting purpose."
 

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Another contradiction to the "possession is hunting" thingy???

From the regs...
"Concealed weapon permit holders may carry a modern handgun, but are not allowed to use it for any
hunting purpose."

More of a "we'll lose if we try to ban it" thingy I suspect. I hope their attorneys were smart enough to advise them that a state statute authorizing the carrying of a concealed weapon trumped a reg that had a blanket ban.

They could still try to prove you were unlawfully hunting, but they would need something other than the fact you were packing if you had a concealed carry license.

I will give the AGFC a break on the weapons issue. It is a complicated issue to try and balance the right to carry and possess a weapon by hunters and nonhunters, especially in a hunting environment, and to also protect game and enforce poaching laws.
 

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What it really breaks down to is the Officer in the field interpretation of the law.

Some have sense enough to look at a situation and make a determination of whether the person is intending to do something illegal or not.

But there will always be gung ho arrest happy fools that don't enough sense to beat their way out of a wet paper bag!!!
 
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