casting for 50cal ml

Discussion in 'Muzzleloading' started by mwells72774, Nov 30, 2012.

  1. mwells72774

    mwells72774 Well-Known Member

    looking for a mold to cast for the 3 50 cal ml's we have now. any input and advice? I like the 250gr lee REAL mold. are those patched or no? never had much experience with black powder
     

  2. Mr. Chitlin

    Mr. Chitlin Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    72,747
    91,344
    NE Ark
    REAL - Rifling Engraved At Loading

    As then name implies, the bullet is slightly oversized and it seals into the grooves when you push it down the bore.
     
  3. newt

    newt Well-Known Member

    I have spent a lot of time in this arena lately. I have a .50 that I can shoot cloverleafs with some bullets I cast. But the only way I got there was by matching the bullet to the rifle. What rifles are you wanting to cast for and what twist rate are they?
     
  4. mwells72774

    mwells72774 Well-Known Member

    Knight t-bolt unknown twist and a cva hunterbolt 1:32"
     
  5. newt

    newt Well-Known Member

    I am going to bet the knight is a 1:28. But there is not much difference between it and 1:32.

    If I were you here is what I would do, one of these two things.

    Get a Lee C501-440-RF and paper patch it, acts like a sabot but you get the full .50 cal diameter plus the weight. This combination has proven itself in many a gun with excellent accuracy. I almost went this route myself, but I wanted to try something different.

    Or, if your not recoil shy, get either a Lee 515-450-F or Lee 515-500-F. This is the route I took.

    I got the 500 grain mold. It throws the bullets at 515 grains. I shoot it out of a CVA Buckhorn Magnum. It takes more work, but I think its worth it. You have to get, or make, two different sizers. I bought one and made one from a 7/8" bolt and threaded it for my press.

    The bullets you can make with the larger size are comparable to the "No Excuse" line of bullets. You can look them up on the net. What I did was tweak this a little. I size mine to .510" first because they drop from the mold around .515". Then I size down to .503" which is the size of the sizer I made. Then I take and knurl them back up to .510" which is the size of my grooves in my gun.

    This bullet loads easier than a sabot. I only lube with LLA by putting a drop or two on the bullet and spreading it around. I think that it performs so well because it is full size and cannot be put down the bore at an angle. It also does so well because of its length.

    This is really the heart of the matter. The Lee REAL and similar conicals are pretty short. Most of them, except for a select few, were designed to be shot out of 1:48 twist rifles. What happens when you shoot them out of a faster twist is that you "over" stabilize them. You spin them so fast because of the twist, and the light weight(most conicals are around 300 grains), that ANY imperfection in the casting process creates an out of balance bullet.

    This is not too much of an issue with a slower twist because the bullet corrects itself, and its not so much of an issue with a heavier bullet because of the same. However, I am talking about accuracy here. I could never do it myself, but I know a guy who can group around 3" with the REAL's in a fast twist. And to boot, if your only going to be taking shots up to 50 yards your fine with most any conical. I could cloverleaf the REAL's at 50 yards all day long.

    I know its a lot, but ask any questions you might have. We can meet up sometime and I'll give you some of each to try. I got the REAL mold and the other. Eventually I would like to get the 450 grain mold and try them. There is one guy I am in contact with, who has been helping me out along this adventure, and he is getting a mold made for a pretty ingenious bullet. Its interesting to say the least, but the essence is that you will use a patch on the base like you would a ball but it would have the ballistics of a conical because of the length.
     
  6. mwells72774

    mwells72774 Well-Known Member

    wow... thats a lot of information. I really do appreciate it newt. didnt think it was as complex as metallic reloading, but definitely is.

    where's gateway?
     
  7. newt

    newt Well-Known Member

    Oh, that's just the half of it. Lol. Seriously though, if your "shooting" for accuracy then it is actually more complicated than metallic cartridges. It certainly does not have to be to just hunt with though, given you hunt within certain ranges. But it can be just as accurate as a centerfire cartridge at long distances also. Guys shoot ML's to 1000 yards at some matches. I'm not there yet, but I plan to have the bugs worked out to 'potentially' have my gun good to 300+ yards. I know the ballistics/energy is there, just a matter of loading and shooting correctly. My loads only go around 1200 fps also. But with 515 grains they don't have to go too fast.

    Gateway is up near Missouri heading out of Rogers. My job takes me down into the southern area around Fayetteville/Lincoln. Just holler if you want to meet. Let me know in advance so I can make sure to have the bullets with me.
     
  8. mwells72774

    mwells72774 Well-Known Member

    im sure we can figure something out.

    1000yds out of a ML? that CRAZY!!! i'd just like to be able to shoot 150yds and hit minute of deer
     
  9. newt

    newt Well-Known Member

    I am going to break out my ML sometime this week/weekend. Going to hunt the last ML weekend coming up. I'll post pictures of my shots. I have mine sighted in zero at 125 yards. I'll have to try and clear out another 25 yards to see what it does at 150.