Arkansas Hunting banner
1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I hope there will be a large hunter turnout at the public meetings that the AGFC are going to hold to discuss our WMA's. I am listing the meeting dates below:


I understand that AGFC's hands are somewhat tied on things they that they can control but it is pretty frustrating that their response will limit access for thousands of hunters. I am going to personally file a FOIA and request any recommendations from biologists regarding flooding. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to look at the Glaise creek gauge and see that when the boards are pulled, the entire WMA drains very quickly. 2 - weeks is a conservative time frame for the WMA to completely drain, provided the river is not flooded.

Like I mentioned though, I understand that their hands are tied. In 2012 the AGFC was successful in a lawsuit against the US Corps of Engineers for timber damage cause by flooding to Dave D. I believe there is more than enough evidence to prove the same is happening at Hurricane. For 4 consecutive years the White river lakes have been held high during winter and spring seasons and caused extreme flooding for most of the summer (into July). The USACE has nearly 1000 MW of hydro power on the White river Lakes, so they definitely have incentive to hold these lakes high and ensure that there is plenty of water to generate into the late summer. For reference, I would bet that these hydro plants profited 100 Million + dollars during the February storm alone. I hope our bureaucratic state agency sees things the same way that I do, especially since there is an existing supreme court decision that indicate the AGFC would at lease get a settlement (USACE offered 5 Million dollars during the black river lawsuit).

I lean towards being a skeptic when it comes to G and F, so I will hang up and listen.
 

·
Registered
The Sword of the Spirit
Joined
·
890 Posts
The powers that be already have their minds made up on what courses of action they are or have already taken.

If we don’t show up, they will say: “ Well, they obviously don’t care. “ If we do show up, well they will listen and nod in the affirmative knowing the die has already been cast.

Go and hob nob, have a nice meal——enjoy a fine beer. Rub elbows. Have fun but manage your expectations.
 

·
Registered
The Sword of the Spirit
Joined
·
890 Posts
Remember on SHAWSHANK REDEMPTION when Morgan Freeman’s character has his last parole hearing and he tells the Parole Board in so many words he just doesn’t care what they do? That’s where I am. I am going as long as I am able and I’ll find Duck’s if they are here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
197 Posts
I noticed on there website, they are closing the nimmo boat ramp to do repairs as well, I understand them having to wait for water to be right and all, but possibly take 2 or more months to get it done?? A good trackhoe and dozer with the right crew should have that done in 1 month tops and that’s with the concrete setting. Why the heck does it take them that long? Somebody please help me out in my thinking? I hope this gets questioned at the meeting as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,881 Posts
Someone ought to be slapped for suggesting lowering full pool in the winter months slightly is going to somehow fix the bayou meto water problem. A real problem exists but this is nothing more than a distraction. I get the bayou meto water district newsletter and the water project has been touted for years. Signs erected. Work done in areas. Now it’s fallen flat. Agfc ought to sell a couple nature centers and allocate the money to address the real issue - spring/summer flooding.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Someone ought to be slapped for suggesting lowering full pool in the winter months slightly is going to somehow fix the bayou meto water problem. A real problem exists but this is nothing more than a distraction. I get the bayou meto water district newsletter and the water project has been touted for years. Signs erected. Work done in areas. Now it’s fallen flat. Agfc ought to sell a couple nature centers and allocate the money to address the real issue - spring/summer flooding.
You hit the nail on the head. I think the G+F are going on a marketing campaign where they appeal to the emotions of the common citizen who has no knowledge of these areas. Their solution will have a negligible impact on the trees but will limit access for thousands of hunters.

However, I am not sure what affect they can have on the USACE when it comes to summer flooding... The only thing more difficult than working with a State agency is working with a dam federal agency!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,827 Posts
Concerning only Hurricane.Why don’t they just let it be like it was before EVERYONE became a duck god.Their intervention in trying to manage water has led to a lot of their own problems.I do agree the Corps
keeps the river inflated way longer than it should be.Remove everything they have attempted in the last 20 years and let it alone,dependent only on the river.It worked for many many years prior.But even worse they diminished all the other hunters from using the refuge in the name of MALLARD DUCKS that no longer use the woods because of overcrowding.It’ll never be what it was just a few short years ago without limiting access to shoot ducks.So quit throwing money at the bottomless pit and use it for other things.Heck use it to put it back like it was 30 years ago.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
109 Posts
Pantsman,
Keep in mind the Corps holding up the White River due to keeping upper White River lakes such as Bull Shoals, etc., at high levels into late summer has been influenced by a change in water management plans on those lakes as the result of minimum flow legislation put in place back around 2000 to protect the trout fisheries below those large impoundments. That legislation/change in water management was pursued by Forrest Wood (and others) on the AGFC for years before it was finally implemented about 20 years ago. In short, they hold the water levels at higher elevations to make sure they have plenty of water to generate in late summer/fall to keep the trout fisheries from getting in trouble due to low water below the dams. When rainfall is excessive, as we've seem quite a bit in recent years, there is simply not as much room to store it in the large reservoirs due to the changed water management plans, so it is released to the White River and tends to keep water levels higher later into spring/summer. The minimum flow/trout fisheries changes to water management on the large lakes in north AR has a definite impact on water levels on Henry Grey/Hurricane. Trading bottomland hardwoods for trout.

Just a comment on Bayou Meto. The issue of dying timber from extended flooding is not new. It has been known and discussed for decades. Area personnel and supervisors have know that timber was dying and oak species diversity was shifting from red oaks (willow, Nuttall's, etc.) to white oak (mostly overcup oak) since the 70s, if not earlier, roughly 20-25 years after Bayou Meto was bought. In one effort to do something about that, a proposal was made around 1990 to cut an area with a lot of cedar elms and other non-oak species and plant it to red oaks, but Steve Bowman, the outdoor editor for the Little Rock newspaper, rallied so much public outcry to the project that it was ditched. So, cutting any tree on Bayou Meto has pretty much been verboten ever since, even if it was a species that did not benefit ducks. Another example of letting the fox in the hen house; i.e., allowing non-wildlife professionals to dictate policy.

My 2 cents worth.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
107 Posts
Come hunt the cache and learn what natural duck hunting is. If it floods, you hunt. If it doesn’t, you don’t.

If agfc can’t manage it properly at the moment, because of issues that are or aren’t in their control, cut the levees, and let nature be nature.

This is not rocket science.

Figure out how to fix it later. But please, just stop the bleeding at the moment.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Amen. Mother Nature intended on a mallard duck to be hunted in green timber during a river flood event. End of story.

Smaller private gtr? Flood it, shoot em, let the water out, repeat. Easier to manage.

When something goes from world class to suck ass in a short period of time it hurts feelings, wallets and egos. I get it. I miss it.
Let the water go. It’s the only way.
 

·
Registered
The Sword of the Spirit
Joined
·
890 Posts
I will always defer the Felsenthal disaster. The learned powers that be at the time, which was and is a constant moving target, deemed it wise to cut the “ marginal “ timber. What they did was upset The Balance God had put in place and the prettiest tract of flooded AR Public timber was destroyed. Then, farming methods changed including about the cessation 10,000 acres of crop land in the Eudora/Lake Village area. The rest is history.

Farming has changed drastically. The climate has changed. States. North of us now farm for Duck’s as we have for 70 years. There’s been a noticeable difference in the productivity of public land yet the seasons on public land have remained unchanged for near 30 years. The AGFC is as full of prunes as a Christmas Turkey but if you want to delude yourself wasting your time at a public meeting, knock yourself out. Me, I don’t care what they do. I’ll hunt in OK or TX and be fine with it.

It’s a tough deal. Most of the private land owners manage their assets. Why should they be punished? What should happen is what Kansas did for a few years with Whitetail Hunting. They banned out of state licenses until the herd was replenished. When I lived there, there was no OOSER Whitetail Hunting. Then they stopped Prairie Chicken Hunting altogether making the hard decisions in the interest of the PC’s. The tough decisions here will be made that will put the commoner at a disadvantage. For starters, some areas should not be hunted seven days a week and those same areas should be off limits to out of state hunters. No draws or other schemes that punish Arkansans just some sacrifices we agree to for our progeny like our Dad’s and Grandad’s did for us.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
772 Posts
I will always defer the Felsenthal disaster. The learned powers that be at the time, which was and is a constant moving target, deemed it wise to cut the “ marginal “ timber. What they did was upset The Balance God had put in place and the prettiest tract of flooded AR Public timber was destroyed. Then, farming methods changed including about the cessation 10,000 acres of crop land in the Eudora/Lake Village area. The rest is history.

Farming has changed drastically. The climate has changed. States. North of us now farm for Duck’s as we have for 70 years. There’s been a noticeable difference in the productivity of public land yet the seasons on public land have remained unchanged for near 30 years. The AGFC is as full of prunes as a Christmas Turkey but if you want to delude yourself wasting your time at a public meeting, knock yourself out. Me, I don’t care what they do. I’ll hunt in OK or TX and be fine with it.

It’s a tough deal. Most of the private land owners manage their assets. Why should they be punished? What should happen is what Kansas did for a few years with Whitetail Hunting. They banned out of state licenses until the herd was replenished. When I lived there, there was no OOSER Whitetail Hunting. Then they stopped Prairie Chicken Hunting altogether making the hard decisions in the interest of the PC’s. The tough decisions here will be made that will put the commoner at a disadvantage. For starters, some areas should not be hunted seven days a week and those same areas should be off limits to out of state hunters. No draws or other schemes that punish Arkansans just some sacrifices we agree to for our progeny like our Dad’s and Grandad’s did for us.
You and I both know there would be people lined up for miles to go shoot the last mallard in Bayou Meto, even if not shooting it meant that their kids and grandkids would have hunts 100x better than anything you or I ever experienced...and that would be saying something.

I am not making excuses for AGFC, and they have made some big mistakes, IMO, but I have to say it has to be one of those jobs where you know that at some point everyone is going to hate you. You don't flood the WMA's and rely on natural waters, based on good science, the torches and pitchforks come out and, "well, all the rich guys that know the Commissioners did this so their clubs would hold all the ducks..." You flood the WMA's and throw your hands up, and now you're an idiot killing off the crown jewels of the State. And that doesn't even begin to address the deer hunters that get mad because no boats are allowed after noon, because that's the easiest way to enforce people scouting all day with a bow in their boat, claiming they are out hunting, when they are just pushing ducks up.

Management of the WMA's as far as access has just been, "well, there it is...go hunt". It needs to be tightened down, but I don't know that you'll ever make that happen. Availability less than 7 days a week will make a lot of people angry, even if they only hunt on weekends. OOS duck hunters are a bit different than OOS deer hunters, since deer aren't migrating from Canada, and I can see a State shutting access down if the deer herd is having trouble.

I really don't know how you classify the management on private lands. Most leases I'd bet that management is just by default; the people leasing the field only get to gun weekends, with an occasional morning during the week that they took off and don't go to work until noon.
 

·
Registered
The Sword of the Spirit
Joined
·
890 Posts
You and I both know there would be people lined up for miles to go shoot the last mallard in Bayou Meto, even if not shooting it meant that their kids and grandkids would have hunts 100x better than anything you or I ever experienced...and that would be saying something.

I am not making excuses for AGFC, and they have made some big mistakes, IMO, but I have to say it has to be one of those jobs where you know that at some point everyone is going to hate you. You don't flood the WMA's and rely on natural waters, based on good science, the torches and pitchforks come out and, "well, all the rich guys that know the Commissioners did this so their clubs would hold all the ducks..." You flood the WMA's and throw your hands up, and now you're an idiot killing off the crown jewels of the State. And that doesn't even begin to address the deer hunters that get mad because no boats are allowed after noon, because that's the easiest way to enforce people scouting all day with a bow in their boat, claiming they are out hunting, when they are just pushing ducks up.

Management of the WMA's as far as access has just been, "well, there it is...go hunt". It needs to be tightened down, but I don't know that you'll ever make that happen. Availability less than 7 days a week will make a lot of people angry, even if they only hunt on weekends. OOS duck hunters are a bit different than OOS deer hunters, since deer aren't migrating from Canada, and I can see a State shutting access down if the deer herd is having trouble.

I really don't know how you classify the management on private lands. Most leases I'd bet that management is just by default; the people leasing the field only get to gun weekends, with an occasional morning during the week that they took off and don't go to work until noon.
The people I know who hunt private spend a ton of money in diesel managing the water and they don’t overhunt it.

My thing is it’s not worth getting upset over one way or the other when it comes to Arkansas Public Duck hunting. I am ambivalent about the AGFC. I just don’t care what they do and I sure won’t waste my time going to a meeting.

There needs to be some common sense on the Federal level with the framework. What they do on the Northern end of the Mississippi Flyway is not necessarily applicable down here but the way I understand it, the framework has to be the same across an entire given flyway. This begs the question, if the states have perview of the seasons within the allotted framework, does no one in the AGFC see that something is off with Duck Hunting in Arkansas?
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top