Arkansas Hunting banner
1 - 20 of 62 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
30,681 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
South Carolina gun and archery deer season opens. It closes in January, maybe February, not sure.

Their herd prospers, year after year.

'Splain that to me, Lucy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30,681 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Me either. But that's not my point.
My point is that shorter seasons don't always result in better deer herds. It doesn't there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30,681 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Just talked to a die hard, nutcase, died in the wool, deer hunter buddy from over there. He said "they just keep replacing what we kill, and we don't count 'em, and we hunt half a year. If you do it differently, go for it. Here we kill billions and trillions take their place".

*snort*
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
685 Posts
South Carolina gun and archery deer season opens. It closes in January, maybe February, not sure.

Their herd prospers, year after year.

'Splain that to me, Lucy.
It looks like they take better care of their doe population

Deer either-sex days for Game Zones are as follows:

Game Zone 1 — last 3 Saturdays in November
Game Zones 2–6 — first 3 Saturdays in October, last 3 Saturdays in November, last Saturday in December, and January 1.
The antlerless deer limit for Game Zone 1 has been changed to 5 total for all seasons and methods combined.

The antlerless deer limit for Game Zone 2 has been changed to 5 total for all seasons and methods combined.


8 total either sex days in most of the zones, and notice they are on Saturdays only.


After checking harvest numbers Arkansas killed roughly 11,000 more doe than South Carolina and around 6000 more total deer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30,681 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
But they shoot all the bucks that they want to. For 6 months.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,504 Posts
It's really not as complicated as we make it.....Doe deer produce fawns that replenish populations. Dead doe dont produce fawns. Buck deer grow antlers that get larger as the deer gets older. A dead bucks antlers will never get larger:up:

Shooting up your doe will not make your bucks antlers larger.......despite what you've been told. Age is the key ingredient that's missing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,069 Posts
Does South Carolina have a 3 point rule? Or can you kill any buck you see? I know this past month when I was in Florida I picked up one of their hunting regulations book, which brings the question why can't Arkansas have theirs out on the shelves before September, but I digress, so now Florida has instituted a two point rule on their bucks. Which I guess they are trying to save the spikes, but every forked horn had better watch out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30,681 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
http://www.dnr.sc.gov/regs/pdf/deer.pdf

Not a word about antler size.

I just talked this morning to my buddy in S. Carolina. He is a LEO, and an avid, and I mean AVID (more than anyone here that I know personally) hunter. He owns land, leases land, hunts all over N. and S. Carolina. He is laughing (not in a mean way) at our view of deer. His analogy is "You can't hurt the fish in a lake by the hook method only".

I don't have an answer. But I do know that his state is absolute proof that shorter seasons is NOT the answer. I know those that advocate that are passionate and good hunters and have a right to their opinion. And I know they get mad if you don't agree with them. But I don't agree. I don't want South Carolina seasons, but I don't want to shorten ours either.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
29,747 Posts
SC G&F may also be pro-active. They identify that coyotes are a problem and actually publicize it and recommend that hunters do something about it - unlike our own G&F which in every study they have ever done on turkey nest success has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that predation is far and away the limiting factor and then they tell you don't bother to try to control predators.

http://www.dnr.sc.gov/wildlife/coyote/

Sportsmen of SC realize the declining deer herd requires further harvest restrictions, but they have to deal with another burden that the sportsmen of AR may have to one day:

"The hands of the SCDNR are tied. Game laws in South Carolina are set by the state legislature. Charles Ruth, who heads the Deer Project for SCDNR, has presented a comprehensive plan for deer management that includes a tag system for all deer taken by hunters across the state.
The plan, which is well thought out and has the backing of more than 85 percent of the deer hunters in the state, would end the wasteful situation we are in today. Unfortunately, the proposal hasn't made it through the legislature despite several attempts; that doesn't mean Ruth and the DNR are giving up."

I don't think you can compare our statewide harvest numbers with those in sc. It seems from comments on this forum that the deer herd in north AR is alive and well. Firearms antlerless seasons in north AR are half as long and the antlerless bag limit is 1/2 or 2/3's less than it is in south AR. Yes, statewide, AR hunters take more does than bucks, but if you threw out zone 12, that would not be the case.

You can shoot the heck out of your bucks as long as you offer some protection to your does. According the the AR bow hunter survey data, 40% of the antlered bucks sighted are 4 pt or smaller, thus protected by our 3 pt rule. When you are protecting 40% of the buck herd, plus the legal bucks that slip through the cracks, and add the buck fawns from the year before - you will always have enough bucks for breeding and to provide an ample number to hunt with realistic seasons and bag limits. But, this system does not guarantee enough bucks are going to slip through the cracks to ensure there are a decent number of old timers in the herd. SC, with their liberal seasons and bag limits is not noted for quality bucks.

There can be a happy medium.:up:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30,681 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I believe you more than anyone else here.

BUT......... I don't see how you can claim their harvest is declining. They don't tag or count 'em. And I've hunted there, and this guy is connected to hundreds of other hunters.........and they are doing well, not one complaint on size or quantity.

"Noted for quality bucks"...........well no, but we ain't either, not before 3 point, and not after. Not sure that matters.

The problem, at least to me, is declining quantity. The answer, at least to me, is not reducing seasons or opportunities. It's stopping doe killing, and go back to where we were long ago. Unless I have to kill a doe for my grandson (highly allergic to beef, deer is the ONLY red meat he can eat), I won't shoot one again..........probably ever. I may eat those words, but right now, that's my plan.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
29,747 Posts
Buckrub - you are correct - I am not sure if they have a declining harvest - not sure if they know that. But, they do know they have a declining population. Right now, their G&F has their hands tied because their legislature sets the seasons and they won't honor what their G&F has requested.

Granted, AR is not noted for trophy antler production, but we do rank up there pretty high on average age of buck harvested - which is a step in the right direction considering antler quality. No doubt, there are some areas of SC that are private property and privately managed that produce some decent quality.

Their G&F deer biologist, unlike ours, does realize their deer herd (not their harvest), is declining. They might not count their dead deer - like AR - but they do study their live deer and the preponderance of the data indicates a declining herd. They would like to do something about it but can't because the legislature won't approve it. Their new plan limiting harvest and instituting a tagging is supported by the majority of their hunters:

"The plan, which is well thought out and has the backing of more than 85 percent of the deer hunters in the state, would end the wasteful situation we are in today. Unfortunately, the proposal hasn't made it through the legislature despite several attempts; that doesn't mean Ruth and the DNR are giving up."

I am by no means a SC deer biologist - never even hunted there. I have a long time acquaintance in Georgia who is involved in a coyote research study and has partnered with both SC and Alabama - so I do read a lot about those three states. The important thing to note here is that all three of those states recognize they have a declining deer population - and even though they all have liberal deer hunting regulations, they all put a lot of the blame for the decline on coyotes.

SC is unable to implement changes on lands across the state, but they have imposed harvest restrictions where they can - on their state owned WMA's. It will be interesting to see what the next few years brings in those states.:up:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37,825 Posts
Well, actually buckrub, if you study the subject of sc's deer population you will see that it is not "prospering" as you say (well maybe it's prospering to a guy who thinks Tony Cruz is "idispensible":fit:), but it has in fact fallen by 40% since 2000. This is according to their dnr. They call it a downward spiral. They have, or are in the process, of shortening seasons and installing limits for the first time ever in order to slow down the decline. I don't know all the particulars on SC as far as hunting pressure and land parcel sizes that would have a huge impact on deer numbers, but I can look at their regs and see they take better care of their does to the point that some claim they have a 30 to 1 doe to buck ratio. I doubt that, but surely killing all your antlered bucks each year would make it seem that way. Hunter attitude plays a major role as well. Maybe their hunters aren't as willing to kill does as the AR hunter. Maybe since there are no tags there, there isn't the need felt to "tag out" and so maybe most of their hunters just kill what they need to eat, instead of killing to fulfill some ego trip. A lot of factors are at play.
Shorter seasons aren't necessary to keep a populous deer herd, I'll admit. However they are vital to having QUALITY hunting. Long seasons allow overharvest of one or both segments of the population depending on bag limits. If it's a long bucks only season you kill too many bucks and you end up like SC where you apparently sit and watch does day after day after day while waiting on a chance at a yearling buck. This is similar to what we had in much of the state just a few years ago, which led to the mass doe slaughter we're conducting today. Guys want to kill nice bucks no matter what they say. We could have good numbers of deer AND a balanced herd with shorter seasons on both bucks and does. We can't do it with bag limits alone, it just won't work with our hunting pressure and geography.
 
1 - 20 of 62 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top