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No pass through

18K views 198 replies 38 participants last post by  Gford 
#1 ·
My crew is in bed and I'm watching hunting shows. Why do they never get a pass through on a deer? My theory is they shot low poundage bows. In the shows they hold the bow back forever.

They never show the hours they spend looking for the deer. I like a pass through because of the blood trial.
 
#77 ·
Stealthy - what say you - from the Maryland Naval study of real life hunting comparison of fixed vs mechanical broadheads:


"Bowhunters who used a compound bow had a higher deer recovery rate with mechanical broadheads (88.8%) than with fixed blade broadheads (82.0%)"

"Bowhunters who used a crossbow had a higher deer recovery rate with mechanical broadheads (95.7%) than with fixed blade broadheads (81.5%)"


"Another consideration of the recovery data is that the used of mechanical broadheads reduced the wounding rate by half over that realized with fixed blade broadheads (9.1% vs. 18%). The larger cutting width of mechanical broadheads (typically 5 cm vs. 2.5 - 3 cm for fixed blade broadheads) apparently overcame any supposed issues with penetration or reliability. Mechanical broadheads could facilitate a more humane harvest of deer by causing a quicker death and making hit deer easier to find."

Also realize mechanical broadheads have seen big improvement since this study, whereas fixed blades are pretty much the same as they were back then.

Stealthy - surely those fixed blade hunters lied about how many deer they were shooting so no one would find their hot spot - in fact, I bet if we knew the whole truth, the fixed blade hunters were killing all the deer and giving some of them to the mechanical hunters to check so other hunters wouldn't be trying to find the fixed blade hunter's hot spots - no doubt.:D


http://www.seafwa.org/26Pedersen_et_al_163-166.pdf
 
#80 ·
Swampcat one study - and this discussion isn't about killing a deer with 8" of penetration, its about full passthrough isn't it ?

If I asked each of you why you shoot the poundage you do, what is the answer? You want as much power as possible, right? You want as much penetration as possible right?

Why? Why not a goal of 8" and that's it? Its surely enough, right?

I've not read that study, I have read much of the Ashby though :)



orangefeetdown - I post what happens in real life bowhunting to me, the good, the bad and the ugly. Sure, we can talk about the lost deer I'd shot/hit ..... and the ones I killed too, we can talk about those and the ones I drew on or didn't draw on etc.

Do you want to talk about my 410 gr arrow and Rage Hypo I used late season last year? We can discuss that too if you'd like.

What I know is this - for the 500th time - using a setup that only works good on perfect shots isn't going to do you no favors when shots go bad.

I know this too - shots go back in the real world of hunting. Sorry - they do.

its perfectly legal to shoot 120 yards at a deer with rusty bladed old broadheads and a badly tuned bow. go for it if that's what you want - that doesn't make it a good choice
 
#81 ·
its perfectly legal to shoot 120 yards at a deer with rusty bladed old broadheads and a badly tuned bow. go for it if that's what you want - that doesn't make it a good choice.

Yeah I always make sure my broadheads are good and rusty. And I never shoot my bow. Always try to drop it out of the tree stand a couple times each season just to make sure it's still durable. [emoji23]
Give it a rest Stealthy.
 
#82 ·
Do you think the equipment you used in KS last year was the best equipment for the job in the situations you might encounter while hunting whitetails....???
-strong winds
-nervous/rutting deer
-If your follow through wasn't perfect
-hitting low in the front shoulder

Isn't 8" of penetration 1" behind the front shoulder is better than pass through in the guts...???

Heavier build animals don't have the reaction time that a whitetail does and will stand there at the sound made by a compound bow.
Speed helps when shooting at nervous animals.
All the momentum in the world doesn't mean a thing if you don't hit something vital.... I'm not trying to kill the dirt on the other side....
Granted if you hit bone you do need
a strong broadhead and momentum behind it....
I'm not gonna sacrifice what a mechanical gives me for the one deer every 5 years that a fixed head MIGHT have been better.

I've lost 3-4X as many deer with a slow bow and fixed blade broadhead.
I'm also not gonna make degrading comments about certain bow shops/bow techs but A LOT I've ran across know less than I do....
 
#87 ·
This may have already been covered (didnt want to read through 80 something replies to find out. Poor penetration could also be the fault of a poorly tuned bow. If your bow is not tuned and your arrow is flexing alot in flight, it could be hitting the deer at an off angle. That can kill penetration.
 
#89 ·
Do you think the equipment you used in KS last year was the best equipment for the job in the situations you might encounter while hunting whitetails....???
-strong winds
-nervous/rutting deer
-If your follow through wasn't perfect
-hitting low in the front shoulder

Isn't 8" of penetration 1" behind the front shoulder is better than pass through in the guts...???

honest answer no - the "best" equipment is this years best bows on the market that just came out .... and $35 each broadheads, and I imagine there are $150 rests and $200 sights that might make a bit better shot for most people.

I didn't have that last year, most people don't. Would have having a 40 fps faster bow have helped last year on my KS shot? Yes - I think it probably would have as the buck reacted very fast at the shot and ducked and turned. I think back to other bucks I've killed .... well I haven't compound hunted much in the previous years, but the recurve bucks were close, not far shots. That buck last year was the longest shot I've ever taken at a whitetail.

I can see the advantage on shooting fast with antelope for sure especially spot and stalk.

Thanks to a couple of great people, I do have an awesome Xplorer bow now, and it performed very well on that doe, as did the Rage head. I found no fault in the setup at all but with the shot I made, I think just about any head and arrow combo would have worked as long as it flew great. It was a good shot - and like I posted back then, there IS a difference in the quietness of bows .... I believe that doe with my old Drenalin would have jumped the string a bit ... with the Xplorer did not.

I'd still like 500 grains total weight :)


How about this comparison .......... a .223 vs a 300 win mag.

What happens when there is a shot and a bad hit with that .223 and its a sold shoulder hit? The .300 win mag will give a better chance of recovering on a solid shoulder hit, right?

Now that won't happen often (bad hit) ..... but it DOES happen, and it gives validity to shooting a smaller caliber bullet vs a big bore one. Some people love small caliber, light and fast. Nobody PLANS a bad hit with the .223 ..... but it does happen.

Light and fast works when hits are great. When hits are not great, then what?




This OP was talking about why the tv shows had such bad penetration - the answer is mechanical heads. Yes, I think they probably were 60-65# draws and light arrows but screw in a Zwickey with same setup and they'll get way more penetration and the holes will be similar as will the kills. Takes more tuning if they're shooting super fast though, no doubt
 
#94 ·
How did this turn into an argument? I went back and looked, everybody was saying the same thing, and agreeing with each other. Everyone is still saying the same thing, but now there is an argument.

Low poundage, light arrows, bad tune, and mechanical broadheads is a bad combination. Every one of us has said that in this thread. Maybe some of the posts didn't make it to my phone? My count is 93.
 
#103 ·
light sheds energy faster than heavy though

ctyson you don't know me - its funny how everyone thinks they do!

GFord - reckons someone will on youtube :)

Hypodermic Trypan $54.99 ( I assume for 3 )

  • Titanium Streamlined Ferrule
  • 100 Grain
  • 2 " Cutting Diameter
  • Super Swept Back Blade Design
  • .039 Blade Thickness
  • Trypan Specific SHOCK COLLAR
  • 3 Pack
Trypanophobia is the fear of hypodermic needles, and the 100 grain Hypodermic Trypan is just about the scariest broadhead Rage has ever introduced to the hunting woods. With its needle-like, streamlined titanium ferrule and 2-inch cutting diameter, the Trypan creates a slap-cut entry hole well in excess of 2.5 inches. Afterward, the Trypan’s .039-inch-thick razor-sharp stainless steel blades settle into a sweptback blade-angle configuration. These are the thickest blades Rage has ever used in a broadhead! Even though the blades are monstrous once deployed, they create only a 3/4-diameter in-flight profile.

The grey polymer Trypan-specific Shock Collar™ provides exceptional blade retention and consistently reliable blade deployment. The one time use Shock Collars are keyed to notches in the Trypan’s titanium ferrule, so they never can be put on incorrectly.
 
#106 ·
light sheds energy faster than heavy though

ctyson you don't know me - its funny how everyone thinks they do!

GFord - reckons someone will on youtube :)

Hypodermic Trypan $54.99 ( I assume for 3 )

  • Titanium Streamlined Ferrule
  • 100 Grain
  • 2 " Cutting Diameter
  • Super Swept Back Blade Design
  • .039 Blade Thickness
  • Trypan Specific SHOCK COLLAR
  • 3 Pack
Trypanophobia is the fear of hypodermic needles, and the 100 grain Hypodermic Trypan is just about the scariest broadhead Rage has ever introduced to the hunting woods. With its needle-like, streamlined titanium ferrule and 2-inch cutting diameter, the Trypan creates a slap-cut entry hole well in excess of 2.5 inches. Afterward, the Trypan’s .039-inch-thick razor-sharp stainless steel blades settle into a sweptback blade-angle configuration. These are the thickest blades Rage has ever used in a broadhead! Even though the blades are monstrous once deployed, they create only a 3/4-diameter in-flight profile.

The grey polymer Trypan-specific Shock Collar[emoji769] provides exceptional blade retention and consistently reliable blade deployment. The one time use Shock Collars are keyed to notches in the Trypan’s titanium ferrule, so they never can be put on incorrectly.
If you're so sure, put your money where your mouth is...
 
#104 ·
No technically I don't know you but I know from all your mechanical head posts even if the thing shot through a steel barrel 9 times you would have your doubts about shooting them because of lack of "pass through"

I'm just glad we have something to discuss on here while it's 110 degrees outside patiently waiting on deer season to start[emoji6]
 
#105 ·
No technically I don't know you but I know from all your mechanical head posts even if the thing shot through a steel barrel 9 times you would have your doubts about shooting them because of lack of "pass through"

I'm just glad we have something to discuss on here while it's 110 degrees outside patiently waiting on deer season to start[emoji6]
This is usually a deer season topic. Awfully early this year - might get to resurrect it in another three months.
 
#108 ·
ctyson you did read where I shot Rage last year for a few hunts and killed a doe, right?

Houdini - I agree, watch that video and we can learn some things :)

Mechanicals have changed, no doubt. One thing I wish is that the blade could lock in place. The " bounce back " effect I don't like, I'd much rather the head stay in the animal and cut. With the blades folded back to flying position or partially, that's a negative, not a positive IMO.
 
#111 ·
I was a "heavy shooter and cut on contact" bowhunter probably just seven or eight years ago. In fact, I was still shooting XX75's and Zwickey BH's back then. I started bowhunting when there weren't compounds - so I guess that type of arrow and broadhead stuck with me a little longer. My wife and son actually started shooting carbon shafts before I did. I bought my first piece of ground in 2004 - and archery kills became common for us. I spent a lot of time on my hands and knees for the next five or six years, looking for specks of blood. Yes, pretty much all pass throughs. My wife shot a doe about six or seven years and after crawling around half the night looking for blood, we finally found it the next morning. It wasn't a bad shot at all. Double lung - SLIGHTLY high. I don't mean just below the back bone. I mean two inches higher than where you would have liked to have hit. Three blade muzzy. Almost no blood. That did it for me. My knees were wore out from crawling around on the ground looking for blood and I thought, why not give those expandables a try - they cant be any worse than this. I didn't have the mindset they were crap, or were going to fail, or get no penetration. They were just something new to us - and there is a comfort zone with staying with what you know. I bought some three blade rage and the first deer I shot was on Pond Creek NWR, during a period of high water. That deer ran 20 yards from where I had shot it into about 20 acres of flooded woods. I got down pretty quick, because I thought I might be able to follow a stirred up mud trail through the 8" deep water. Even better - there was a blood trail in the water. Yes, I hit that deer pretty good - but I would not have expected to blood trail through the water. Sure enough, we started experiencing better blood trails after the switch to expandables. A little better on the good hits - which didn't matter - but a little better on the poor hits made a big difference. From finding no blood or specks of blood to finding drops of blood. After I made the switch, I actually kept track of what I shot and what I recovered or lost. At one point when I quit keeping track - I had shot somewhere between 50 and 60 animals (probably 2/3's hogs) and lost one hog and one deer with the rages. We were about to go on an elk hunt and I had reservations about using an expandable. I start shooting all kinds of fixed blades to determine what I was going to use. I shot muzzys, Stykers, three or four different kinds of SlickTricks, and some Magnus two blades. I was using hogs for my testing purpose. I lost two with those fixed blades - out of about ten or twelve - which was more than I had lost in the previous four or five years with the expandables. I settled on a four blade slicktrick - and shot and lost a nice 6 pt bull elk. It was not a pass through. I promise, I would have had more blood with an expandable. I might not have recovered him had I been using an expandable - but there would have been more blood. I haven't shot a fixed blade since I returned home from that hunt.

Archery equipment has come a long way. A lot of Archery equipment from 15 years ago was probably suspect when it came to shooting larger diameter expandables. Bows are faster, arrows are better, broad heads are better - the equipment is up to the task to efficiently shoot the larger expandables. I think a lot a folks that have reservations about shooting the expandables probably shouldn't question the equipment as much as they should question their own abilities.:)
 
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