Bowseason Length Back

[firehog]

I would like to open discussion up on the bowseason cut made two years ago. Many feel this cut was made without any data to back the cut, and it was a cut made to appease some gun hunters, that got mad and voiced opinions because they had lost some gun seasons.

My take was if they needed to cut some days on gun season, to help the herd thats fine, I understand, gun hunting takes a great majority of deer in the state. If you look at the days in the deer summary you can see when gun season opens. Its our best tool to maintain healthy deer herd levels. But I guess they under estimated the kills in some areas, and wanted to cut back, some of the gun seasons. Last year we saw some muzzleloader season come back. And I am real interested in seeing this years kill numbers. But here's the complaint on cutting bow season back. Bowhunters, I believe usually don't kill more than 400-500 deer statewide in that month, correct if I'm wrong. Its a small minority, that continues to hunt. So why cut it. Its not effecting the herd. I hunt a few days, that month, just to sit in stand. And I know many others do as well. I feel if we just continue on, and never bring this issue up again, it will never come back. Its basically a principle issue, and what I mean, is, if we allow such cuts without data, backing it, then we open other future cuts that could effect allot more folks. We have to make decisions based on data. What data we do have, supports its not a detriment to our herd. The numbers show that. So its a principle issue, and my worry is future cuts made in that manner.

As mentioned on other post, we need to know what the complaint was for it to be cut. Well I heard, the excuse were killing two to three deer possible, with does being pregnat. I heard thats the hardest time of the year on deer's survivability, I heard good bucks get killed during that time thinking their does. Well let me give my view point. A doe killed in Nov, is still a dead doe in Feb. Deer surviving in Feb, are still surviving in Dec or Jan. Bucks being killed in feb without racks, I have two theory's. One most of the hunters in that time frame are hardcore hunters, their not going to kill a buck without its rack, and the ones that where mistaken, the numbers are so low its not a detriment to our herd anyways. In fact when you look at the numbers, the numbers dispell all the excuses period. Now if we were killing a substantial amount of deer in that time frame I might tend to agree with them, but folks its just not happening. So give the bowhunters back their season, its not a detriment to the herd.

I heard one last reason or excuse as to why the cut took place, and that was to be fair, across the board. And if thats true, I sure hope the majority of the public don't hear that, cause the non-hunters far out number the hunters, and I shiver to think we're in the game of setting seasons to be fair for all.

I appreciate your thoughts and time. Thanks Lee

[F B]

This is the main issue that got me upset with the Commission and how things seem to be managed lately.

I seldom hunt that late in the year myself but I hate to see it taken away from those who do especially with some of the reasons they gave for the cut.

The reasons they gave dont hold any more water now than they did 20+ years ago.

In all the years it was in place the deer herd continued to grow but now all of a sudden those two weeks need to be cut?

Some bucks lost their antlers by the end of Febuary 20 years ago too.

The few that Ive had in range that time of year that had already dropped their antlers had a very distinguishable bald and sometimes bloody spot where the antler was.

If it was gun season where the shot might be 100 yards or more they might be hard to see but they aint hard to spot from 25 yards.

I think they should give it back but I dont see it happenin' anytime soon.

[Earnhardt fan #1]

The 2002-2003 AGFC Deer Season Summary book I have says that ....


Archery accounted for 9749 total (thats crossbows too)

Muzzleload accounted for 19545

Modern gun accounted for 95187


Archery ................7.83% 151 days

Muzzle Loader..........15.68% 7 days
Modern Gun.............76.48% 43 days ???


The 2003-2004 summary goes like this...


Archery totaled 9178

Muzzleloader totaled 10992

Modern Gun totaled 86965


Archery ................8.56% 138 days

Muzzleloader...........10.25% 12 days

Modern Gun.............81.17% 43 days ???

[ January 16, 2005, 04:10 PM: Message edited by: Earnhardt fan #1 ]

[deerhunter]

Thats the problem we have been faced with here lately..decisions based on someones personal opinion and not the facts.

I am a die hard hunter who loves the late season hunt and I think we should get our two weeks back no question asks.

With so little deer being taken that time of year there's no reason for us to not have our days cut reinstated.

[fisherman]

Deer per day

Archery 65.5
Muzzleloader 1236.4
Monder Gun 2118.04

That is an Average of both season that EF #1 gave.

[Earnhardt fan #1]

You mean both gun seasons yes all days added up

[fisherman]

Yes

[CDay]

Well let put it this way, I have always been for more opportunity for all hunters that the resource can handle with out any negative effects. With that said adding the two weeks back to bow season is not going to have any negative impacts on the deer herd. It has been said too often that archery could be open all year long with no impact on the herd. So with supporting the concept and mission statement of the AGFC of managing for maximum opportunity and enjoyment. They the commission should by all means reinstate the two weeks back to archery season. Even though I do not hunt at that time of year and many other s don't as well. So the number of deer harvested at this time period is very little.

[Hill Hopper]

Would it be worth requesting time to offer something like this as a presentation to AGFC Commissioners at next meeting? Not sure if they allow this, but would be nice to go on record with it.

[xring]

While we are stirring this pot, lets remember that our deer herd was growing state wide, we had an abundance of deer, we had long seasons, then someone????decided we needed to eliminate a great many of our breeding does, state wide, not just in the areas there were too many. I suspect that those voices that were the loudest were from BOWHUNTERS, who were not happy with killing run of the mill bucks anymore, a common buck was unappreciated by the Hunters watching real tree outdoors, so the doe kill was hatched, state wide, and it did wonders, didn't it. Now we need to cut back seasons to get to where we once were, so the same voices will demand that it be taken from someone else instead of them.

Have a nice day,,xring

[Hill Hopper]

Frankly I feel the "Doe Kill" didn't go far enough in all the areas I hunt, and saw no affect as far as damage to the herd from it. I don't think they should ever have tightened up on it. I hunt with all legal weapons and don't think the bowhunters had a thing to do with it. I don't promote "Antler Farming" but do fullly support QDM.

[xring]

I on the other hand think it really messed up the small area that I hunt, never seen so many small gimped up racks as in the last three years. So I guess its where you hunt and what you had before that makes the difference. Boy I sure thought the first couple of years that it was going to be the ticket, but it went on a downward spiral from there. This was just my observations, no sound data to back it up,,but then, wait, there was none to back up the original plan either was there? xring

[DODGEMAN]

X you hit the nail on the head, NO SOUND DATA, to back up anything. Everything that is done to this point is based on opinion. Just as we are on here, everyone has an OPINION, some may have the right answer and some may not. Some may have the right answers, but they may not be the right ones for the area they hunt? I just hope the research the bowhunters are doing this year will provide us with some information the actually put some INFORMATION behind some of OPINION based decisions.

On this issue of the archery season going back to the end of Feb. since the archers, especially at that time of the year have no impact on the deer herd, what is the point in shortening the season?

Just my 2 cents, thanks Jeff

[TheBattman]

It's not hard to figure out who the commissioners responsible for this idiotic situation - and one of the biggest troublemakers for us hunters is Sheffield Nelson.

I have about come to the conclusion that Bill Clinton was a better president than Sheffield is a Commissioner. And that's SCARRY!

[J. Clark]

X - I think that part of the reason that some are seeing more "gimped up" bucks know is because many of the younger deer that people use to shoot now live to 2-1/2 years old and you can tell what you really have. From what I've seen, those larger antlered bucks are just as big now as they use to be but now we have a middle class buck that really did not exist in great numbers before. I do not think that the genetics changed at all over the past few years. In some areas, they were not that good to start with and with more 2-1/2 year old deer, that is easier to see now.

[firehog]

If our members are for putting this back in place, and I haven't talked to one yet that was against it. I plan on mentioning it at a meeting. And hope others as well mention it from other groups or individuals.

[Sister]

Why not keep the season open all year around? Afterall, the bowhunters don't take enough to make a difference to the herds anyway, isn't that what I'm reading?

So, why not just let that one group of hunters (bowhunters) have the right to hunt all year as long as they stay within the guidelines of the AG&F as to how many of what sex they can take.

OR, now that's another idea....Just listen to this!!....why put limits on the number per sex that can be taken by bowhunters, because as you say, bowhunters don't take enough to make a difference in the overall population anyway.

And....it would undoubtably benefit the deer quality because only those deer dumb enough to get into the range (and that would be pretty close I imagine, what with the trees and vines all leaved out) of a bow would be taken...thus you have the smarter, stronger genes left. Call it the "culling season". Yeah, that makes it sound downright noble to me.

Have I missed something? Admittedly I am no hunter, just a friendly bypasser reading the posts and wondering about some things. So you can feel free to really light into me and I won't mind at all. :D :D :D

[Hill Hopper]

Sister, the ticks and chiggers are too bad in the summer. :rolleyes:

[Sister]

Panty waist!! :rolleyes:

[Tony Harris]

Make mine a large please. I sweat like a grown pig anyway and if you add cooties to that...

I think if the AGFC had said and shown they had data that showed we needed to end season on December 31st, most bowhunters would have hated it but would have lived with it until it was proven otherwise. It may be the right thing to do but without sound data it just as well may have been the worse thing to do.

I will hunt more in late Feburary than in January but deer hunting then is not an option now. But other hunting is and will be open. Perhaps if we could get the AGFC to put their money where their mouth is and allow bowhunting of hogs on WMA's where they have homesteaded. After all the AGFC said they are a nusiance and damage the habitat and compete directly with deer and turkey for food??? Why not allow the license buying bowhunters and gunhunters of Arkansas to draw for tags to hunt during the year. Say one group gets drawn for Jan. another for Feb. another for March and so on. Give each group a month in the woods because some would only make it one weekend in the whole month anyway. Sure work to get explainations for why bow season was cut as well as the other seasons and if possible work to get it back, but at the same time lets expand our opportunities where we can find them.

[deerhunter]

Originally posted by Sister:
Why not keep the season open all year around? Because some of us would like to stay married. :D

[Sister]

Now there is a honest hunter!!

[Sister]

Originally posted by Tony Harris:


I think if the AGFC had said and shown they had data that showed we needed to end season on December 31st, most bowhunters would have hated it but would have lived with it until it was proven otherwise.

Sure, work to get explanations for why bow season was cut, as well as the other seasons, and if possible work to get it back, but at the same time lets expand our opportunities where we can find them. You other bow hunters agree with that first paragraph? You are a brave man Tony!!

I can see it now....NEWSFLASH...JUST IN....AG&F under siege and completely surrounded by what appears to be Native Americans sporting bows and arrows and yelling incoherently, can't make out what they are saying but appears to have something to do with wildlife and restricting their time in the woods. AG&F officials have sent out a request that the gun hunters of Arkansas please come in and try and control the crowd, but as yet no one has shown up....someone has reported talking to one of the gun hunters who explained that they have had their weapons cleaned and locked up in a safe for at least a couple of months now...None of the gun hunters feel it would be safe to approach the bow hunters at this time. Helicopters have been called in to drop supplies in to the AG&F officials as this is beginning to look like it could be a long standoff. More later on this new breaking story....
:D :D

[Sister]

Okay boys, where is your sense of humor? It was all done in jest!! :D :D

There really wasn't a seige at all. graemlins/thumb.gif graemlins/thumb.gif

[Rattle-m-up™]

Tony is a pretty bright bulb and i agree with him...but of course i agree with most everything he says.... graemlins/thumb.gif

[deerhunter]

Originally posted by Rattle-m-upTM:
Tony is a pretty bright bulb and i agree with him...but of course i agree with most everything he says.... graemlins/thumb.gif He told me that you are graemlins/censored.gif and I dont mean happy. :D

Seriuosly..I agree Paul,Tony seems to be a very wise young man.

[ January 18, 2005, 01:25 AM: Message edited by: pgooch ]

[Rattle-m-up™]

Originally posted by Sister:
Okay boys, where is your sense of humor? It was all done in jest!! :D :D

There really wasn't a seige at all. graemlins/thumb.gif graemlins/thumb.gif what!!!! :eek:NO SEIGE :eek: ....uh oh....hey guys...i'll be back in a little while....i've got to go and call the FBI and let them not the SEIGE is off! :eek:

[Sister]

Rattle, didn't you call them FBI boys?..... Got a call this morning wanting to know if this is the party who made a false report concerning a threat to the AG&F...... graemlins/smack.gif

I threw them off by asking if A. G. & F. stood for Arkansas Gas & Fire!! They hung up. :D :D

[octoberbuck]

This issue was a real head scratcher until I went to the G & F meeting in January. As I looked around the room it dawned on me that this is “politics” plain and simple. That is when the whole situation hit me like a ton of bricks.
For a while now I have been trying to put my thoughts together as how to approach this subject in a manner that is somewhat logical. This political ploy is multifaceted but is basically “A Politicians Formula” and has one or more goals set that may or may not be revealed depending on a measured response by those targeted.
Mike Masterson’s column in today’s “Dem-Gaz” titled as above defines this more accurately. “First you have to create the impression of a crisis”. Then you offer a plan to solve the crisis you’ve disclosed. Lastly, you emerge as a hero for having had the plan, and the will to tackle and resolve your manufactured crisis.
However this tact is a little more sophisticated as it creates a wedge so as to “divide and conquer” also. Thus reducing political liability.
First one can assume that what has happened is exactly as presented. In my paranoid mind when a politician starts pitting one group against another there is something deeper happening. The reg addresses bow hunters as a group and implies that they are taking unfair advantage of game by baiting. The references go back to a “gun hunter” that said something some where. I present that it is a rare case indeed when a politician takes a statement from one individual and reacts. Most politicians want to be centrist and offend as few as possible. Therefore this is a brilliant wedge. The individual knows that bow hunters are divided into three groups that have strong opinions. 1. The traditionalist – long bows, wooden arrows, recurves etc. 2. The techies Compounds, sights etc. 3. Crossbows. This group is also divided further on opinions as to whether or not to use bait just as gun hunters are. Now the attacked group is reduced to a voice in the wilderness. Brilliant!!
Politicians react to numbers, money, and political leverage. For example look at the dog-deer issue. Lots of numbers. Private land owners in Cleburne County have banded together in a unified front and have legal representation. This is forcing the issue. Numbers, unity and legal representation. That will jerk a politicians head in several directions. Look at what happened shortly after the meeting in January. G & F said they would study the issue. Then the next thing you know a resolution in the State Legislature was passed. Bingo G & F issued a stronger statement that they were working on a compromise and felt things could be worked out. My point is that except for a few individuals talking and a letter from ABA things are pretty weak.
If we, as bow hunters, ( I laso hunt with a gun.) do not step up to the plate, that new shaft in your quiver will not be one that was bought at the store. There is more in the future with this. We have missed the opportunity for reaching to all segments of deer hunting by not having petitions at the pre & post season shows for the gathering of signatures. Maybe I missed some things here but I sure don’t remember, seeing or reading of any activity supported by anywhere close to a cohesive unit. I am not aware of political clout being initiated or taken.
Bow hunters have lost two weeks of their season and it is not coming back. Quite simple. Once a politician has risked political capitol to take something away and deemed the result safe, then one can assume that the decision is a neutral event or that there is unspoken support (gun hunters) for that decision.
Corn. The reason corn was injected into the reg was simply to label it as bad and unfair to use on deer. This is advance notice that our corn feeders will be sitting in the garage beside our robo ducks. Let’s address some issues that are now being addressed related to hunters and the general issue of baiting. The issues to look at are the following: 1. Disease concerns 2. Unfair chase. 3. Population dynamics. Very, very strong arguments here.
Disease. Have you ever looked at a corn feeding station where a spinner has been used for a long time? The ground is barren and smooth. Deer pick up the corn with their tongue or mouth and body fluids are deposited on the ground. I’ve had up to 20 deer on one of my feeders at one time and there are possibly more than that using it. The risk for transfer of disease is very real. CWD has been linked to feeding stations and feed in the north. Biologists consider feeders as a time bomb. Once a disease starts in a herd it has to run its course and one could find himself with nothing to hunt for quite sometime. The only way to keep this from happening is prevention. Ban the corn feeders. The reason it hasn’t happened is because of two things. 1. Money 2. Hunters (All forms)
If you are a large buyer of grains and hedge the futures market you can end up loosing your shirt when a reg is passed banning corn if adequate notice is not given. Look at the corn reg as a political trail balloon and an advance notice to the future. The ban has to also be politically palatable. Thus the attack on bow hunters for a measured response. Read this in many different ways but someone is assessing the response here for future action. There are some compromises available on this issue but that’s another story.
Unfair chase is pretty solid and hard to defend at any time. Therefore anyone using bait or other feeding station tactics will be affected.
Population dynamics are interesting. Here again bow hunters are very vulnerable with our extended season. For whatever reason our deer population went down. Whether it was weather (Remember the ice storms, they definitely affected recruitment rates), liberal doe limits, poor mast production, or disease, the population went down. Political realities are that G& F are favoring numbers in the regs now (My opinion). Population is down and a 2 buck 1 doe limit (Zone 12) is allowed. What!! Wonder where the balanced buck doe ratios goal went. This is a definite rule favoring one segment of the hunting population and to heck with population dynamics and past goals. We are now back to a numbers game with a little quality thrown in. Very viable management decision. This ploy benefits and plays politically very well. Here are the reasons. 1. Gun hunters make up the largest majority. 2. Hunter surveys show satisfaction of a successful hunt as “seeing” at least 6 deer. Doesn’t matter what sex. Unfortunately this increases the doe population. Where does the bow hunter fit into this? The population is down therefore the population needs to increase. Every fall and winter we have three rutting periods. Primary, secondary and tertiary (I am aware of trickle rut.). Theoretically the third and final period occurs late December and early January. This means that from mid January (Remember the bait rule on January 15) the does that are going to be bred are bred. Each doe a bow hunter harvests will be the taking of 1- 2-3 deer. Many people are against the taking of doe anyway and now we are killing pregnant does and hurting the herd. Why not end the bow season on Jan 15 or better yet at the end of December and add another any sex gun hunting day to offset the bag limit from the bow harvest? Interesting ploy no doubt. We can hunt with a bow or gun!! Very biologically and politically feasible. Just a thought.
My thoughts for the future are that we will see baiting illegal. Food plots and enhanced native vegetation will be utilized for attractants and quality herd management. (“ One acre of quality food plot is equal to approximately 50-100 acres of native habitat”. , “Producing and Harvesting White-tailed Deer" by Dr. James C. Kroll ) “ A study by Rogers (Arkansas) in 1980 on an enclosed area showed that 2 % of their area planted in quality food plots doubled the size of the normal deer herd and stopped population fluctuations due to hard mast failure. ("Quality Whitetails" by Miller & Marchinton).
Bow hunters can look forward to a decreased season because the trial balloon is out there and the timing is being set. One can only speculate what the trigger will be. If we are to preserve what we have in terms of length of season there has to be a more solid voice and political clout wielded or we will have to take what is dished out to us.
I hope that you have found this interesting and informative. Because my typing skills are very slow I will not be able to respond and debate. Just take all of this as one persons observation and perceptions. Thanks for reading.
By the way, if a loud Voice is heard on these issues then nothing else will happen and those responsible will say it was never planned. Neat!! No political capital spent.
JMHO, I’ve got two corn feeders for sale!!

Gene

[lil e fan]

Firehog> This point has been and is still being fought by the ABA (Arkansas Bowhunters Association). Why not contact the President of the ABA and talk to him and combine the efforts of this Organization and that one. The ABA has already let it be known to the G&F that they are gonna stand up and fight for the season back. I am a member of that one and will be here very shortly. JMO :thumb:

[ARMallardSlayer]

Mike Freeze says that he's tried to talk to some of the commissioners about this issue and they don't want to hear it......If they can't discuss this, what do we need them in that position for?

[firehog]

Thanks prabbit for you thoughts on several issue. I posted this thread back a few weeks ago to see what the thoughts were on the subject, and to get a feel where folks stand. My belief is, when ever there is a regulation or cut without biological data, and the hunters don't say anything, then we open ourselves up for more cuts similar in nature.

First let me say I totally agree, this cut on baiting last year, was a, save face political ploy. As all hunters understood last year, some commissioners wanted a two more week cut in bow season. And there was a lot of voices raised about the cut. I also understood, the commission was split on the vote, with the one deciding vote not known has to how that person stood on the issue. With that said, a compromise was given, to cut baiting out, the last two weeks of season. And who knows the whole rumor of two more weeks of bow season cut might have been a ploy to slip in the baiting ban at the last minute, who knows. Thats a old school politic game, and it works very well.

But let me say, the baiting rule, has way to many grey areas to be effective. And it should have been better thought out. When one can still continue to feed on ones property and not hunt that bait, and the neighbors next to that property still wants to hunt, it puts many hunters out there in a bad situation. With no distances set on how close or how far you need to hunt from bait, and leave the distances up to a wildlife officers discretion, with out hunters having any guideline, that puts us all in a bad situation. Especially folks hunting small 40 blocks.

Also the idea that feeding gave hunters a unfair advantage of game is also a mute point when only around average 700 deer were taken during those time periods. Bow hunting late season was not and still not a factor in our overall herd population reduction.

This whole mess started back six years ago, when we had liberal doe bag limits, a total of three and four, I believe could be harvested in certain areas. Hunters reduced the herd, and we were on the way of getting our doe ratio numbers in check in some areas. But where AGFC made the mistake, was giving these limits in areas, that really should not have had those limits. That’s where the problem was created. Instead of controlling doe kills, in the marginal areas, they allowed hunters to continue to kill. And also they never factored in the ice storm deaths. The year they cut back on the doe kills, which was after a good stretch of three years of doe harvests, folks complained because they weren’t seeing the numbers, couple that with zone 4 being closed due to flooding and the button buck factor being considered a buck, and the three point rule deer kills went down. So when they posted the numbers for that one year, the numbers were lower, but actually those numbers were wrong, because they came back and said they had numbers that weren’t factored in, due to hunt club check sheets being late. So all in all, the numbers where not that far off, in reality, but by then, the snowball effect had begun. Talk had begun, fingers started to point. Bow hunters pointed toward gun hunters, and gun hunters pointed back. Except one thing forgotten in the whole mess, was gun hunters have the clout. No doubt. And many forgot this. When one commissioner stated it was only fair to cut across the board, bow hunters failed to realize their season might be effected as well. No data, no reason, other than being fair. When you tally all the bow kills in Ark for 03, it adds up to almost 15% of the kill totals. That’s a small percentage. Bow hunting is not a factor in harvest totals, and neither is two weeks of the late season, or baiting two weeks of the late season. The numbers support this.

So the unfair chase, or population dynamics argument doesn’t hold water, with me.

On the disease concern and I’m no biologists, so please bare with me, but we sample test certain areas throughout the state for CWD. It has not even gotten close to Ark, that I know of, on this date. I would be 100% for banning baiting if the disease was getting close to this state. It’s a concern I have, and I hope the state increases the number of test they all ready are doing. With no positive result tests, in Arkansas, I feel it’s safe to continue the baiting practice. I would hate to start regulating our game on a hunch of something might happen. I would hate to see other bans on practices on deer and other species, on a hunch some disease might come into our state.
If I stopped doing everything in my life that could cause cancer in humans, I would probably have to live in a bubble with oxygen pump to me, and then I would not be 100% safe.

We should not over react, in haste, we should continue to test, and watch a possible threat. If CWD was heavy in Missouri or Oklahoma, I would be inclined to look at banning baiting methods maybe in the upper half of the state..

Anyone can come up with a thousand excuses, to stop anything. Let’s see facts and not speculation. Fear is the most used excuse or ploy to initiate self interest restrictions on the citizens of this country, bottom line.
Analysing the threat is priority first. Then decide the probability and possiblilities.

I agree someone is assessing the future just on these prior cuts, I know that, and maybe others as well. One of the reasons, why organizations are formed, are out of a sense of feeling helpless in the politicians game of governing our way of life.

On the issue of harvesting doe in Jan, with the ruts being before Jan and Feb, and killing 1-2-3 deer in one, I must go back again and say, if that deer was killed in Oct, its still 1-2-3 deer killed anyways possibly, doesn’t matter when you kill it. A doe killed in Jan, is a doe killed in Oct.

I agree the trail balloon as you mentioned has been set, hunters must take note, and stand up for what’s right. But remember not trying to sound like a broke record. Lets push to have data shown to us, to show why they make the decisions they make. I think all would feel better, and a better understanding would be had by all. Us, hunters are for the deer in this state, if it wasn’t for the hunters, I promise you, deer would not survive in this state. We all know this, and I know I’m preaching to the choir. Maximum enjoyment, with a healthy herd is the overall goal. We have a healthy herd, we have had two years of cut bow season, and two years of cut Muzzleloader and gun. Some gun season has come back, its time to bring back the bow season loss. remember maximum enjoyment. The minute we allow one person to dictate his own personal maximum or minumum enjoyment, without just cause. Were in trouble. The commissioners have a duty to protect the resources, but they must be justified in their actions.

The ADHA stands for bringing back our bow season, for many reasons I explained up top. The baiting issue is merely my own opinion. We have not discussed this issue, at this time.

I know I will be representing the ADHA in at least one of their next meetings coming up soon. We are a fledgling group, and are trying to get our feet underneath ourselves logistic, and administratively wise first. Though we deeply care about many different issues in the deer hunting sport, we still have to grow as a organization, and our growth scale is on a sharp incline. We are working to achieve the best deer organization for all methods of hunters in the state. I am proud of the members, and proud to represent them in official capacities. I would offer any support to the ABA that we might can give.
I don’t know if the ABA spoke at the last meeting, but I recommend, both of us, to raise issue to bring back the last two weeks of bow season. We have many bow hunters in our alliance, and its time the bridges between all the different methods of hunters are bonded together, for one cause, and that’s maximum enjoyment, with sound biological data supporting the resources management. Thanks Lee

[fisherman]

Posted by Firehog:
This whole mess started back six years ago, when we had liberal doe bag limits, a total of three and four, I believe could be harvested in certain areas. Hunters reduced the herd, and we were on the way of getting our doe ratio numbers in check in some areas. But where AGFC made the mistake, was giving these limits in areas, that really should not have had those limits. That’s where the problem was created. Instead of controlling doe kills, in the marginal areas, they allowed hunters to continue to kill.




What we need to remember is that when this all started people wanted to see more bucks. The biologist told us that to improve the buck hunting we must first reduce the doe numbers and let the number of bucks increase and to do this they told us that it would reduce the over all heard numbers.
People went from seeing 20, 30 deer a day to just seeing a few but what they failed to relies is that when they were seeing 20 deer a day they were only seeing 2 or 3 bucks a WEEK and now that they were only seeing 4 to 5 deer a day they were seeing 2 to 3 bucks a day.
WE were told that the deer number would go down but people seem to forget that. We still have to many does in south AR we still need to be killing 3, 4 or more does each year. Things are better but they pulled the plug with the job half done.
As to why they cut the season and cut the baiting I do not under stand that, there is a limit to how many deer you can kill, how long you take or that they are killed over bait should not matter you can still only kill so many.

[firehog]

Yes your right fishermen, they did advise us of the doe numbers would come down, and I think most of, lets say the serious deer hunters knew this and understood this. But with the majority of our hunters being a few weekend hunters out of the year, they were shocked and thats where the complaints mainly come from. Most hunters when polled back then said they wanted quality deer, and to accomplish that, does must be brought in check in some areas. Now they might have brought some areas in check a little more than they anticipated, but none the less, it was part of bringing quality deer. My estimate is 75% of the hunters out there thought, hey, I want big bucks, along with all the does I see as well. Never knowing what it takes to bring quality into the managment scheme. So they all said, yes for quality. But when some areas doe population came down, they cried fowl. And then we're back to square one again.

Let me add this, I saw some really nice deer, being checked in at the show yesterday, and I know thats not a indication of anything, but boy there's a few folks killing some really nice deer. But this zone and area is not a true indication of the rest of the state. Thanks Lee

[fisherman]

In my part of the state there is people killing 8 points that have never seen a 8 point. We have a good start on getting out doe number in check but we can't stop now or all will be lost.
The thing I am seeing with the shorter season is that people are not willing to wait and see if they will see a good buck, they say "I only have so many days to hunt so I better kill one if I see it". These same people were willing to let little bucks walk early in season when we had the long season so the shorter season is hearting our management. I am refering to the rifle season but I am sure the same thing could be said for the bow season.