Regulation On Shooting from a moving Vehicle

[firehog]

ADHA members and all hunters, AGFC is looking at a regulation on shooting from a moving vehicle, ATV etc. We have the opportunity to give some input on what would be a good regulation on this practice. I ask you and anyone what do you think should be addressed in such a regulation. I would like to research other states regulation on such practices, and put forth the best information possible. Thanks for you input. Lee

[Buck]

It shall be illegal to push,pursue,or herd in any manner,wildlife with a motorized vehicle,including ATV's.Furthermore shooting at a game animal from a moving vehicle,including ATV's,shall also be deemed illegal.
In the future this shall be proclaimed as The Law Of Buck.

[Deerslayer]

Firehog, if you need some help with looking at other states let me know. Give me a list of states and I will see what I can find.

[firehog]

As best as I can remember Illinois has a fourwheeler regulation. And I will just search states and see if they have good ideas. I know the officer thats tasked with the forming of this regulation, and he said he would like any suggestions we could give him. My thinking is it would be good to write it up in regulation form, instead of just throwing out ideas.. So I would like to get all the ideas, and form the regulation, and pass it on. It has to get approved from all the district managers and then go up through the chain, legal, and then commissioners for final approval..Who knows if it would make it all the way through, but they want something, and I appreciate the chance for us to help.

[DODGEMAN]

Lee I think Buck is close, except for the law of Buck thing. graemlins/smack.gif

I also think it helps to reference other states that have the regulation, as you stated this will be handled just as we intend to handle everything by finding out information and making decisions based on data.

[xring]

Originally posted by Buck:
It shall be illegal to push,pursue,or herd in any manner,wildlife with a motorized vehicle,including ATV's.Furthermore shooting at a game animal from a moving vehicle,including ATV's,shall also be deemed illegal.
In the future this shall be proclaimed as The Law Of Buck. Amen!

[fisherman]

Just don't get it to where you can't shoot from a vehicle, I like to set in my truck with my boy when it is to cold for him and raining. I am not talking about moving around just using it for a warm dey blind.

[deerhunter]

Originally posted by Buck:
It shall be illegal to push,pursue,or herd in any manner,wildlife with a motorized vehicle,including ATV's.Furthermore shooting at a game animal from a moving vehicle,including ATV's,shall also be deemed illegal.
In the future this shall be proclaimed as The Law Of Buck. I think Bucks law sums it up pretty good. graemlins/thumb.gif

[firehog]

Deerslayer any states you have in mind, or any ideas?

We need to be aware of the handicap situation. Any way it is written, it needs to be precise, with no outs.

Some have mentioned the gun needs to be cased. I don't see any problems with that. Most hunters carry there gun cased anyways. Though when talking about handicap folks,,and them being able to travel on certain trails on public land, I could see cases getting stolen from the ATV, if they left the ATV,,course you could always get the mounted hard case for ATV's.

I don't think there would be a need for bows being cased or would there be?. And not playing sides but common sense says your not gonna ride and bow shoot,,at least I hope not.

Just some ideas,,,

[xring]

The post that Buck made with the preposed wording was good, there will be admendments to the law for handicapped hunters anyway, and no limitations on shooting from a stationary vehicle.

Not being gifted with words, I'll leave you better educated individuals to cipher it out in terms used by lawyers and judges.

My appreciation for your efforts in this worthwhile cause,,,xring

[rjet]

I like bucks definition.
As far as having to case a rifle am all against it. Not against it being illegal to have a round chambered though while in transport. Dont care much for the atv cases due to the possible beating they can take thus knocking scope out of whack.

[WarblerWatcher]

Since Deerslayer is member of the ADHA and is also an attorney for the state and is probably better positioned to do all the technical and research type stuff than any of the rest of us and also more qualified to come up with a couple of draft proposals that would stand up to legal muster, seems to me we should jump at the chance to take him up on his offer of help...and take him up on it anytime and everytime he offers it! smile.gif

[Buck]

I would never want it to be illegal to shoot from a stationary vehicle,I have done it many times,my truck is my best deer stand.Our issue here was shooting from a MOVING vehicle,not a gun case issue,lets clear one hurdle at a time.

[Deerslayer]

I'll take a look at some of the surrounding states. In my opinion, people give more credence to what states in our region are doing.

I'll second all the favorable responses to Buck's language. I might would want to clean it up a little bit and put it in the format the Game and Fish uses for their regulations, but his idea is dead-on in my opinion.

I am also opposed to including any language concerning gun cases. I don't think the Game and Fish would want to go that route anyway because the Arkansas Supreme Court struck down their last attempt at requiring guns to be cased while in a vehicle. In my opinion, requiring guns to be cased goes beyond the authority of the Game and Fish. It is too much of a regulation on "firearms" and not "hunting".

[firehog]

I agree,,,just thought I would throw out what another state had,,on the reg, but your right.

[Deerslayer]

Here is some information to chew on. Texas is the only surrounding state that does not prohibit hunting from a motorized vehicle (the TX prohibition only applies to desert bighorn sheep).

State Game Laws Regarding Hunting from a Vehicle

Louisiana
TAKING GAME QUADRUPEDS OR BIRDS from aircraft or participating in the taking of deer with the aid of aircraft or from automobiles or other moving land vehicles is prohibited.
http://www.wlf.state.la.us/apps/netgear/index.asp?cn=lawlf&pid=444

Mississipi
It is illegal to hunt or kill any game animal, furbearing animal or game bird from any motorized vehicle or boat. However, squirrels and game birds may be hunted from a boat if the motor is off and the progress of the boat has ceased.
http://www.mississippi.gov/frameset.jsp?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mdwfp.com%2F

Missouri
Title 3 DEPARTMENT OF CONSERVATION
Division 10 Conservation Commission
Chapter 7 Wildlife Code: Hunting: Seasons, Methods, Limits
3 CSR 10-7.410 Hunting Methods
(1) Wildlife may be hunted and taken only in accordance with the following:
(A) Motor-Driven Air, Land or Water Conveyances. No person shall pursue, take, attempt to take, drive or molest wildlife from or with a motor-driven air, land or water conveyance at any time. Except as provided in 3 CSR 10-7.431, motor boats may be used if the motor has been completely shut off and its progress therefrom has ceased.
(O) Any properly licensed person having a physical disability that would prevent them from hunting or taking wildlife by methods prescribed in this chapter, may attempt to take wildlife from a stationary vehicle, or may hunt wildlife with a crossbow in lieu of a longbow, provided while hunting s/he carries an affidavit provided by the department and signed by a licensed physician which certifies the person has either a permanent or temporary disability which qualifies him/her to hunt with a crossbow and/or from a stationary vehicle. This disabled person shall provide a copy of the signed affidavit to the department within ten (10) days of receiving
the exemption.
http://www.sos.mo.gov/adrules/csr/current/3csr/3c10-7.pdf

Oklahoma
§29-5-203.1. "Headlighting" - Lights carried on person - Hunting from boat with firearm - Harassment, attempt to capture, take or kill with aid of motor-driven land, air or water conveyance.
D. No person may harass, attempt to capture, capture, attempt to take or take, kill or attempt to kill any wildlife with the aid of any motor driven land, air or water conveyance, except a nonambulatory person may hunt from said conveyances with written permission of the Director. Provided, however, nothing in this Code shall prevent the use of motor driven land or water conveyances for following dogs in the act of hunting, when use of said conveyances is restricted to public roads or waterways. Said conveyances may be used on private property for following dogs in the act of hunting with the landowner's or occupant's permission.
http://www.lsb.state.ok.us/

Tennessee
Tennessee Code § 70-4-109. Hunting from aircraft, watercraft or motor vehicles unlawful - Penalty - Exception for persons confined to wheelchairs.
(a) It is unlawful to chase, hunt, or kill any wild birds, wild animals or wild fowl in the state of Tennessee from any craft propelled by electric, gasoline, steam or sail power, or airplane or hydroplane or from any automobile or motor vehicle.
(b) Notwithstanding subsection (a), any person totally and permanently confined to a wheelchair as certified by appropriate documentation to the executive director may hunt or kill any wildlife from a stationary automobile or motor vehicle during the lawful hunting seasons; provided, that it is unlawful for such person to shoot directly across or over any road, path or other right-of-way; and provided further, that any such persons shall be accompanied by another person who is not so confined at all times when hunting, and that such person shall retrieve all game taken in such hunt.
(c) A violation of this section is a Class C misdemeanor.
http://198.187.128.12/tennessee/lpext.dll?f=templates&fn=fs-main.htm&2.0

Texas
Texas Administrative Code Rule § 65.11. Lawful Means
(5) Special Provision. Except as provided in this paragraph, no motorized conveyance of any type shall be used to locate, herd, harass, or hunt desert bighorn sheep. Any person who qualifies for handicapped parking privileges under Transportation Code, Chapter 681 may possess a loaded firearm in or on a motor vehicle while hunting desert bighorn sheep and may hunt desert bighorn sheep from a motor vehicle, provided the motor vehicle is not in motion and the engine is not running.
http://info.sos.state.tx.us/pls/pub/readtac$ext.TacPage?sl=R&app=9&p_dir=&p_rloc=&p_tloc=&p_ploc=&pg=1&p_tac=&ti=31&pt=2&ch=65&rl=11

[WarblerWatcher]

Good job Deerslayer! smile.gif

[Deerslayer]

Here is the Game and Fish regulation prohibiting taking wildlife from a motorized land vehicle on WMAs. As this is a regulation that has already been approved, modeling a new regulation after it is probably a good idea.

20.24 HUNTING FROM MOTORIZED LAND VEHICLES PROHIBITED ON WMAs AND WDAs. It shall be unlawful to take or attempt to take any species of wildlife from a motorized land vehicle on WMAs and WDAs.
EXCEPTIONS:
(1) Persons having a valid Mobility Impaired Program Card are exempt, to the
extent allowed by the Commission's Mobility Impaired Access Policy.
PENALTY: $100.00 to $1,000.00.

[Buck]

Are you guys wanting to prohibit hunting from a stationary vehicle?I'm not,just the moving ones.

[firehog]

DS,,you beat me to it,,but I may have a few you didn't get,so I will post what I got as well.
Mississippi Regulation

Missisippi Regulation
HUNTING FROM ROADS, VEHICLES AND BOATS
It is unlawful to hunt or shoot in, on or across any street, public road, public highway, railroad or the rights-of-way. It is prima facie evidence that a person is hunting if he possesses a firearm with a cartridge or shell in the barrel, magazine, or clip attached to the firearm, or if all ammunition is not located in an enclosed compartment, container, box or garment (whether or not the firearm is in or out of a motorized vehicle) while he is on any street, public road or highway, or any railroad, or right-of-way thereof any time during the open season on deer and turkey. An unloaded muzzle-loading caplock firearm is one with the cap removed.
An unloaded muzzleloading flintlock firearm is one with no powder in the flashpan. It is illegal to hunt or kill any game animal, furbearing animal or game bird from any motorized vehicle or boat. However, squirrels and game birds may be hunted from a boat if the motor is off and the progress of the boat has ceased.


Missouri Regulation
Motor driven Air, Land, or water conveyance. No person shall pursue, take, attempt to take, drive, or molest wildlife, from or with a motor driven air, land or water conveyance at any time. Except as provided in 3 CSR 10-7.431, motor boats may be used if the motor has been completely shut off and its progress there from has ceased.

Illinois Regulation
Hunting from Vehicles and Boats
It is unlawful to hunt, disturb, harass, or take any protected bird or mammal by the use or aid of an automobile, vehicle, or conveyance, any type, of watercraft, aircraft, or any machine propelled by mechanical power. Except paraplegics or other disabled persons, with a permit for the office of Law enforcement, may hunt from any stationary motor vehicle, or stationary motor driven land conveyance.

Arkansas Regulation
Swimming deer may not be hunted. Deer may not be driven or captured from a boat. Deer may not be hunted from watercraft on public waters.


Kentucky Regulation
PROHIBITED HUNTING METHODS
No person shall take or attempt to take wildlife from an automobile, or other vehicle, except as prescribed by regulation. Hunting from boats is permitted for small game. A person shall NOT pursue, chase or take a deer, elk, bear or turkey with the aid of dogs; while on horseback; or when the deer or elk is swimming.

Iowa Regulation
It is illegal to chase or use a machine to assist in taking of any game animal. Short version----(Except for disabled or handicapped my use from stationary positions, must be approved and a show a map of hunting area you will be in.)

Louisiana Regulation
F) Taking game quadrupeds or birds from aircraft, participating in the taking of deer with the aid of aircraft or from automobiles or other moving land vehicles is prohibited.

Tennessee Regulation
It is illegal to hunt, shoot at, chase or kill any wild animal wild bird or wild fowl from a public road right away, or from any motorized vehicle or to shoot firearms across or from a public road or vehicle..

[Deerslayer]

I've sort of taken this topic and ran with it . . . us lawyers love rules and regulations :D Here are two proposals I came up with, using terminology and formatting from the AGFC regulations.

Proposal 1: Hunting from a moving vehicle prohibited.

18.27 HUNTING FROM A MOVING MOTORIZED LAND VEHICLE PROHIBITED. It shall be unlawful to hunt or take, attempt to hunt or take, or drive, herd, or harass any species of wildlife from a moving motorized land vehicle.
EXCEPTIONS:
(1) Hunting or taking wildlife by a person from a stationary motorized land vehicle shall not be unlawful so long as the person is in compliance with all other Arkansas State Game and Fish Commission regulations.
PENALTY: $100.00 to $1,000.00.

Proposal 2: Hunting from moving or stationary vehicle prohibited with exception for disability.

18.27 HUNTING FROM A MOTORIZED LAND VEHICLE PROHIBITED. It shall be unlawful to hunt or take, attempt to hunt or take, or drive, herd, or harass any species of wildlife from a motorized land vehicle.
EXCEPTIONS:
(1) Persons having a valid Mobility Impaired Program Card are exempt, to the
extent allowed by the Commission's Mobility Impaired Access Policy.
PENALTY: $100.00 to $1,000.00.

[Buck]

Proposal #1 looks fine,Proposal #2,in laymans terms SUCKS.

[firehog]

Buck--Missiouri had this ---motor has been completely shut off and its progress there from has ceased..

I wonder how this would be interpreted,,if you were hunting out of your vehicle, and you shot one stationary in your vehicle, can you drive over to your deer, and lets say it gets up and and limps off real bad while driving over. What percentage of folks do you think will just stop, and get out and shoot again, verses, driving over and trying to stop the deer.. Its a thought to think about,,just throwing out ideas..Some states you can shoot from stationary vehicles, while many strictly prohibit any taking from a vehicle.. I just want to look at any loop holes, cause they could kill a reg so to speak. My thinking is, stationary means stationary, you shoot, and thats it, but I wonder, how many after the shot, motor over to get the deer and something happens..Just a idea..

Were just getting info and discussing..Thats all.

[Deerslayer]

I agree Buck, my vote would be for Proposal #1. I drafted Proposal #2 for those who are opposed to hunting from a vehicle period.

[Deerslayer]

Firehog, my interpretation of Proposal #1 is that the hunter would need to stop the vehicle or get out of the vehicle to take another shot. In my opinion, the proposal is air-tight on this issue: no hunting, taking, or attempting to hunt or take unless the vehicle is stationary. If you tried to put in an exception for wildlife previously shot at, you are putting in a loophole big enough to drive a vehicle through (no pun intended) smile.gif

[firehog]

No I wasn't,,I was just trying to say that it would be a big loop hole..

And I like proposal one as well.

[firehog]

Lets get some feeback, on this and by next week give our input. I'm sure he will appreciate the effort, I will personally give it to him. What ever we decide.

[Hill Hopper]

I like #1 also. When its cold and nasty, thats where I have my daughter.

[rchunter]

My proposal---We already have enough laws/regulations.

Let's just propose a regulation stating that they do a better job of enforcing the regulations that they already have, such as night-hunting, road-hunting, out-of-season-hunting, and other major forms of poaching which cause the most damage to our deer herd, etc., etc., etc.

I heard a good idea on this board, a few weeks ago, somebody stated that there should be a law passed prescribing the consequences for given offenses, which would stop some of our judges who don't care about our wildlife from handing out "handslaps" for sentences to those who illegally depredate our deer herds.

Just how many deer are shot each year from a moving vehicle? I would say not very many as a moving vehicle makes a very easy shot pretty difficult. I just don't get it.

It just sounds to me like another rabbit chase to take the attention away from the problems that are a little more hard to solve although much more important.

[F B]

I dont mind making it illegal to shoot from a MOVING vehicle but I dont like the idea of a gun having to be in a case.

[Buck]

With 2 wardens per county,it takes people turning in the poachers and night hunters and road hunters,instead of just bitchin about it.Our wardens have alot of territory to cover.The moving vehicle law might stop some of the harrasment from 4 wheelers during the gun season,do you agree with it or not?

[CDay]

I would go with and support proposal #1.

[dspeakes]

I would be in favor of proposal #1.

[DODGEMAN]

I like proposal #1 also and I don't think we would find anyone that would argure that this regulation should not be in place.

[rjet]

Proposal #1

[deerhunter]

#1 does it for me.

[xring]

#1

[fisherman]

I vote for #1

[Tony Harris]

#1.

If the AGFC wildlife officer saw someone herding deer with a 4 wheeler that could be intrepreted as harassing wildlife and could be subject to a citation. If honking your horn at one on the side of the road is harassment surely chasing one with a 4 wheeler is?

[rchunter]

I still don't get it. I've never seen anybody chase a deer down with a four-wheeler. Maybe I'm missing something here.

If it must be passed, I'd have to go with number one, but I just don't see what this could possibly accomplish.

As far as turning in poachers, I realize it takes the general population to alert AGFC enforcement officers to violations. So does everyone else who is able to process information in a logical manner. Here is the point---I could see several other issues that could be dealt with by forming regulations which would be more proficient in 1. discouraging poaching, 2. assisting our AGFC enforcement officers in catching poachers, and 3. provide prescribed penalties to those who are found guilty of violating wildlife related laws so our wildlife officers work is not futile.

It just seems to me like the AGFC is chasing rabbits again on this one. It is just about as meaningless as stopping baiting after Jan. 15, or eliminating 15 days of archery season---and in my opinion, this regulation, if it is passed, will save less deer than either of the two previous ones that I just referenced.

[DODGEMAN]

You maybe right about the number of deer lives saved rchunter, but if it just saves one human life or some kids life then it was worth the effort.

[Bowcrazy]

I think #1

[Nathan in Arkansas]

or molest wildlife from or with a motor-driven air, land or water conveyance at any time Guess they dont want Rattle in Missouri.

Seriously, I like Proposal 1. But I dont and never will support hunting from a parked vehicle either. But I can deal with that if it will keep 4 wheeler deer drives away.

[ArkieNewbie]

I really dont see how you could enforce either of those 2 proposals. When I say that I dont meant the part about shooting. I am referring to It shall be unlawful to hunt or take, attempt to hunt or take, or drive, herd, or harass any species of wildlife from a moving motorized land vehicle. So basically we would have to stop all offroad vehicle traffic during deer season. Whats to stop a couple people from hopping on the quads without camo and push deer toward someone. All they have to say is they are just out trail riding.
Personally I dont think you should be allowed to use off road vehicles except to get you into and area and back out. With the exception being able to help bring out your game. I have had more spot and stalk opportunities lost to joyriders/roadhunters that I care to count. Those physically able to hunt need to quit riding around and do a little hiking. Those that are physically unable to enjoy the walk in the woods I can see cutting them some slack. How you draw that line I am open for suggestions.

[firehog]

Just my thoughts,,like any reg, or law,,it will keep the honest folks honest, and the law breakers watching their backs.. Right now its legal, and they don't have a worry. It will stop many,,but like any rule,,some will break it. I suspect video's will be taken on such practices if its a rule. One thing thats a advantage, is a officer can sit back a good ways and see it happening and video it.

If you have ever seen them doing it, you know what their doing, without a doubt. And the ones I have seen were shooting while driving.

[ArkieNewbie]

Unfortunately regulations put limits on what the honest hunters can do. Those that break the law will do so no matter what the law book says.

[ODC]

In prop #1...the way I read it is....I can ride my ATV or truck....around when I see a game animal I have to a complete stop It would be legal to shoot...if this is the way everyone else sees it ...then how is this a good law?

This would be no diffrent than what we have or don't have on the books now.

Example: I'm ride my Atv on my land and 4 deer cross in front of me....now I stop grab my weapon and shoot and them....did I break the above law or was I legal?

I wasn't chasing them> they crossed in front of me?

What do you think?

[firehog]

Poachers will be poachers no matter what..The state can't catch everyone of them. If the hunters them self, took intiatives, like went to court and watch known court dates for poachers, make aware any judges rulings that let people off,, vote these week judges out, that would also be a step in the right direction. But we must report illegal activity, bottom line. The officers can't do it all.


I know of a instance where a person threatened to start killing every deer in sight if he didn't get his way on a reg..Needless to say that person will now be watched, very hard..Course he probably was already being watched just didn't know it. We got alot of folks out there running around doing what every they want to do. They know the judge will slap their wrist,,that alot of judges view such law breaking as minor offenses. Many judges talk big,,but I haven't seen one yet, that satisfied what I thought the punishment should have been.

[Sister]

Originally posted by ODC:
In prop #1...the way I read it is....I can ride my ATV or truck....around when I see a game animal I have to a complete stop It would be legal to shoot...if this is the way everyone else sees it ...then how is this a good law?

This would be no diffrent than what we have or don't have on the books now.

Example: I'm ride my Atv on my land and 4 deer cross in front of me....now I stop grab my weapon and shoot and them....did I break the above law or was I legal?

I wasn't chasing them> they crossed in front of me?

What do you think? How about an answer to the question? I'm interested in seeing how this would be judged by the majority.

[Buck]

I think it would be legal to do that,the atv was stopped,and you werent making a drive.

[Deerslayer]

I drafted the proposal, so here is my interpretation, based on the definition of "hunt or hunting" under the Game and Fish regs:

1. Driving ATV with the intent of searching for game and to shoot at that game, happen upon game, stop ATV and shoot:
unlawful because you were using a moving motor vehicle to search for game. Note that the illegal behavior started as soon as the ATV moved, not when the shot took place. Under the proposal, you cannot use a moving motor vehicle to search for game with the purpose to kill that game once found.

2. Driving ATV with no intent to search for game, happen upon game, stop ATV and shoot: lawful because you were not using a moving motor vehicle to search for game. You were breaking no regulations, saw game, stopped ATV, and legally fired.

The answer to the question depends on the intent of the person. The obvious flaw is that someone can always claim they were not searching for game. It is not a perfect regulation, but there is no perfect law or regulation. With enough time, I'm sure anyone can come up with a scenario that tests the outer limits of any law or regulation.

The best way to stop road hunting or the ATV scenario is with a gun case regulation. That is not going to happen so we are left with coming up with second best alternatives.

[ODC]

Deerslayer,

Thank you...you addressed what I was looking for to make an informed decision.

My next question would be why ( those oppssed to cased gun) don't want the guns cased? Please answer with logically reasoning...this is merely a discussion.

I personally don't see why any one needs to drive around with an uncased gun? Please give me reason why you/someone might need to drive around with an uncased gun

My reasoning for not drivng around with an uncased gun:
1. It is an usafe practice...all weapons should be unloaded and cased when not in use. Everybody knows some one who shot out the tranny on thier vehicle.

2. It might help to take the temptaion out of the "mostly" ethically hunters, who see a big brusier while driving the roads. Okay this actually would help the deer out more than the driver.

Thank you

[xring]

There are several reasons I don't like the cased gun law,

#1 You've been out hunting in the rain all morning, You've decided to go to the house for the day, Your rifle is wet, its cold, You stick it in a gun case, now your case is wet inside, you get to the house, tired miserable cold, your going back tomorrow,,lock the truck and go get warm,,tomorrow morning your gun has rust all over it, the cased wet stock has warped, its point of aim has shifted, this is the morning the big bruiser everyone has seen but never had a shot at strolls by, you miss it by feet,,,etc.

#2 You decide to move a 1/4 mile down the road to another stand location, you slip the rifle in the seat barrel down and pull out,,100 yards down the road you meet a warden, he sees the rifle and you were road hunting to him..Ticket

#3 Some poor folks like me don't got no rifle cases

#4 I ain't never shot the transmission outta my truck, nor anyone elses. I ain't going to kill one out the window anyway, I pass most that I hunt for, so I sure ain't going to kill one that way.

#5 Its another pain in the B graemlins/censored.gif t that I don't need.

xring

[fisherman]

The Game & fish passed a case law at one time and it got beat in court by the right to bare arms.

[ODC]

X-ring....

I'll go with ya on #1 .....but thats only cause if you go in our hunting room....my hunting crap is laying all over from the last time I went....I can certainly repect Laziness as a reason not to have a gun case law

Got go with #2 also that enters the Lazy factor once again

#3 I'm sure some fine folks could give you a gun case ....heck you could even go buy one...Wallymart sells them for about 9.86...that'll only take you not buying 4 gallons of gas once to afford one

#4 I and everyone thank you for not shootin out your tranny or anyone else's. Once again Kudos for being ethical.

#5 sorry to hear your hemmiroids are acting up again ....I can certainly understand about not wanting to get another pain.... graemlins/thumb.gif

[CDay]

I have to agree the cased part is taking it too far. And "x" has several good points here. The simplest way is to make it illegal to shooting from a moving motorized equipment or vehicle that is is still under power.

[MountainBuck]

Fisherman is right, the case law was determined by the Arkansas Supreme court to be unlawful due to infringement of the right to keep and "Bare" Arms.

[DODGEMAN]

I would say to include you weapon could not be load while riding in or on a moving vehicle. That way they would have to stop and load it, then shoot.

[firehog]

ODC,,,I think what has spurred the interest in this topic, is the increase of folks in the delta that are having big organized drives which turn into a run and gun situation, which has become dangerous, with the way they are shooting and trying to drive.. That to me is what they want to stop. And let me say, I have only heard this from the folks in this area. I have no idea what the main guys think at LR. It may fall on deaf ears, who knows. I heard there's a group here that is wanting to stop this type unsafe practice as well.

I don't think some folks can understand or visualize what they are doing. And that is chasing deer down, and trying to shoot them on the run. Its a delta problem, due to folks just waiting out in the fields for deer to be pushed out, and then its a race to catch them before they get into the next block of timber. And many times the next block is being hunted by folks, all the while hoping they don't get shot by the folks surrounding them shooting toward them, from running fourwheelers.

Every state around us, except Texas has a law on it. Iowa, Illinois, Missiouri, Tennesee, Mississippi, Louisiana, Kentucky, Oklahoma all have laws on the practice.

They can curb, the driving while shooting which to me is the most unsafe part of the whole thing. They can probably stop the big groups driving herds on fourwheelers. But I don't see the single guy driving to his stand, and seeing a deer, and him stopping and shooting, is gonna be stop. Thats not the problem, that I have heard. I know thats not what the complaints have been about. I don't think the guy hunting from a stationary position out of a truck or atv is the problem..Its shooting while driving. To me thats just common sense.

[fisherman]

Originally posted by DODGEMAN:
I would say to include you weapon could not be load while riding in or on a moving vehicle. That way they would have to stop and load it, then shoot. The same court case that beat the case law also said that you had the right to carry you gun loaded, unloaded it is just a stick.

[DODGEMAN]

So I can travel the roads with mine loaded in the truck?

[fisherman]

Yes you can. As long as you are not in something like a park or some place where you can't have a gun.

[MountainBuck]

I had a WO tell me though if you stepped out of the truck in a WMA with the weapon loaded they could give you a ticket for Road Hunting.

[fisherman]

This came about a few years ago when the Game & Fish passed a case law in a effert to stop Road Hunting, some people from Garland County took them to court and beat it. The Game & Fish used to right tickets for road hunting if they found a loaded gun in your truck, and they got read of that to. The only way they can get you for road hunting is to see you shoot from the road.

[MountainBuck]

What about the law that says its illegal to hunt within 50 yds of the Road.

[ODC]

I see Firehog....what I am doing is trying to debate the issue(s) at hand and as you said maybe some didn't understand the reasoning behind the possible new Reg.

By looking at all sides of the issue or possible situation that some might like/not like we all gain insight in to what would result in the proper Regulation to address what is happening in the delta.

Maybe the #1 proposal with the add feature of the key must be removed from the ingnition(sp) would add the extra measure need to insure that even the single atv/truck ridder on his/her property are still under fair chase ethics....what do ya think??????

[firehog]

I think its 100 yrds,,maybe wrong though..

[fisherman]

Originally posted by MountainBuck:
What about the law that says its illegal to hunt within 50 yds of the Road. Goes back to the "Right to Bare Arms" if you ain't shooting at something you ain't hunting.

[MountainBuck]

Sounds Reasonable to me. I know that when the case law was in effect I had my gun checked to see if it was loaded a few times, but in the last few years that I've been checked, I was never even ask if my gun was loaded.

[fisherman]

Originally posted by firehog:
I think its 100 yrds,,maybe wrong though.. Will see if I can find it but I think it is 50 Feet from the center line of the road, and that is not very far.

[xring]

Originally posted by ODC:

Maybe the #1 proposal with the add feature of the key must be removed from the ingnition(sp) would add the extra measure need to insure that even the single atv/truck ridder on his/her property are still under fair chase ethics....what do ya think?????? [/QB]Your going to step in a firestorm here, I don't believe we have this problem here in my area, but the main cause for concern to me at least is the safety issue of driveing/rideing while shooting, if you try to take away rights previously gained by land owners/leasors, you lose there votes and we need this practice stopped before someone gets killed. Its sad that people old enough to be carrying a weapon can't use enough common sense to not need this enacted.
JMO xring

[ODC]

So X-ring are you agianst removal of the key?

[xring]

Didn't say that,just that if we try to take in to many things, fewer will want to agree on stopping the running and gunning.

[MountainBuck]

Originally posted by fisherman:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by firehog:
I think its 100 yrds,,maybe wrong though.. Will see if I can find it but I think it is 50 Feet from the center line of the road, and that is not very far. </font>[/QUOTE]Looks like we were all wrong, Found it on the AGFC website, but couldn't copy and paste it because it was printed in Adobe program, anyway it says illegal to shoot across or hunt within 100 ft of center of any county, state or federally maintained road or right of way.

[fisherman]

Thanks MB I could not get in the game book. I though it was something like that.

[CDay]

The bad reality of shooting and driving at the same time road hunting, 9 out 10 times the shooter is drinking also. graemlins/smack.gif

[odocoi]

9 out of 10 ??
Just curious where the stats came from

[ArkieNewbie]

thinking it was just a figure of speech odocoi. Just meaning it happens alot

[odocoi]

I know those stats don't exist but just wanted to question why someone would post something like that just to make hunting from a moving vehicle sound worse. If you don't like it then use facts not dreamed up ideas.
FYI, it's not a problem around here so I don't even have an opinion on whether it's right or not.

[firehog]

MB,,I knew it was 100, and after I posted I got to thinking it was in feet..I got a guy that hunts 5 acres, and he's real close to the 100ft mark..

[firehog]

I agree with you x,,keep it simple..most of the other states did as well.

[CP]

I think,,,,,,

Lets just try to get a regulation for the area that is having all that trouble, mostly around DM's place. It just will not fly over the complete state. We already have "statewide" this and that..don't need any more reg's like that..

You do realize that we may be trying to pass a law, to be enforced on "private lands", that would be more restrictive than what is now applied to public land. G&F will not go there. Keep it simple, not about shell in chamber or key in ignition....will be a tough sell even if it is easy to enforce.........which it ain't.. :rolleyes:

[fisherman]

Since all our rules are at the WO's discretion any way, why don't we just make it a law that you can't do any thing stupid and leave it up to the WO's to figure out what that is graemlins/smack.gif

[CDay]

The only problem I have about recommending a new rule, is sometimes after the commission gets done twisting it around it comes out totally different than what was wanted. graemlins/smack.gif

[firehog]

CP and CLyde you are right on both things.. As it stands, the question is, do we give a suggestion, and it might help, or do nothing, and let them come up with their own ideas.. I think with giving a suggestion and doing some of the research work from other states, it might help, who knows..It might get twisted after everyone gets ahold of it. But if you go back and read the other states reg on it,,its cut and dry, quick and simple. Some variations from each state, but the jest is the same. I think the AHDA, should always stand for safety no matter what. I will package this discussion, and our proposal next week, and give it to the officer in charge of writing a reg on it. I think we have had a good discussion on it so far.

I don't know if it will be a state wide thing or even if it gets through all the committees. We can stipulate just zone 4, but I don't see them doing that..I figure like everything else it will be state wide thing if it comes about. Which I don't think the rest of the state is running deer like over here, or have the land to do it, like here. I do wish for it in zone four only..Thats where the problem is.

[firehog]

life :rolleyes: ;) graemlins/thumb.gif

[deerhunter]

Originally posted by odocoi:

FYI, it's not a problem around here so I don't even have an opinion on whether it's right or not. In reality I would hope that my fellow hunters would care about things that do affect others even if one is not effected directly.

TOGETHER WE STAND....DIVIDED WE FALL

[Earnhardt fan #1]

odocoi

Actually it is a bigger problem than you or I see .you hunt southern white I hunt northern and both east and west in most places east Around Hurricane and Bald Knob they do it like when the river is just about to close it off.

[CDay]

Lee to some degree I feel I need to stay out of this section and not be involved in this decision since I have chosen to go my own way.

I agree on the part this is needed more as a safety issue for all. I also feel this should be a state wide reg. Even though it does not seem to be a major issue in other parts of the state, but it is hard to believe it ain't happening elsewhere but not to the degree it is happening here. Yes the delta region is more open and flat. But I have heard of some that where seriously hurt chasing deer on ATV's up around Hardy a couple of years ago.

[firehog]

odocoi,,yes I understand. Many folks have the same opinion on many different issues, like that. The thinking is, hey it don't effect me, so I don't care either way. Its easy to not get the full force of reality or impact when your not in the situation for sure or even just witness it.
I have been unbias on several issues over the years, due to it not effecting me. And recently, I have gave quite abit more thought into such issues. For solutions. I guess its just becoming more aware, and having empathy for other fellow hunters more now than back in the day. As we become organized, getting to know other members and regional problems will be supported by other regions within the state, even if it don't effect you personally. Thats the great thing about us becoming organized. Especially on safety issues. Safety should always be at top.

But our thinking has to be broader so to speak now days. Some have said it don't effect me, but it does. Your tax money pays for deer protection over here just as well. If you pay taxes, we should all be concerned with all deer statewide. And I know you want all deer to have fair chase oppurtunities and safe practices for hunting. Course I agree the safety side might never effect you, unless you hunt over here. But numbers of supporters and communication, is the key thing for bringing awareness.

[firehog]

DH,,Did you steal that phrase from the wise man? graemlins/thumb.gif

[odocoi]

The problem is that who do I believe when it comes to formulating my stance on the issue? I don't think it's a problem around here at all. Right now about all I know is that 9 out of 10 of the folks doing it are also drinking. Well, someone hasn't been calling the AGFC hotline to report illegal activity often enough if that's the case.
I know I should support certain issues that affect hunters across the state but there are too many hunting relating "issues" that way too many people have a problem with for me to ever keep myself up to date on them all.

[Earnhardt fan #1]

odocoi ; like the dog issue it may not have affected you or me or anyone else we know but now it is and will till something positive can happen on both sides of the fence.

[firehog]

od--I don't know about the drinking part, I have not witnessed it, not saying it don't happen. But I saw where someone posted that. A County deputy can take care of that, without the AGFC. I would believe their more experinced in that area. But I also believe a WO can handle it as well.

But as to calling the AGFC, I was told they had numerous calls on it, and couldn't do anything about it, cause its legal. And I suspect thats why their looking into it.

[CDay]

Odocoi I put that part in as saracism and has nothing to do with facts on the subject. I seriously doubt drinking was involved in the ATV chases. But I do know some of it happens when it comes to hunting out of moving vehicles (trucks) whether it is on private land or on public roadways. I am sorry if I offended you with my cutting up on the subject at hand.

[odocoi]

no need to be sorry. Just seemed like throwing that in there made the situation seem much worse than it is, from my point of view anyway. Which is uneducated concerning this problem. ;)

[firehog]

Up date, on the proposal.

I gave Mr. Wilkins the proposal one, we liked that Deerslayer wrote. and the regulations from the other states, that Deerslayer and I found. He was pleased, and said that was want he had in mind. And thanked us for our help and concern. So we will see what comes out. Thanks for your help and input.

[kw]

Please help me understand what was proposed. If I am on my private property driving my truck or atv with a loaded gun on a road that I maintain and see a deer, stop and shoot it-Is that legal?

[firehog]

KW, here is the proposal all thought was good.
Key word is Moving.


Proposal 1: Hunting from a moving vehicle prohibited.

18.27 HUNTING FROM A MOVING MOTORIZED LAND VEHICLE PROHIBITED. It shall be unlawful to hunt or take, attempt to hunt or take, or drive, herd, or harass any species of wildlife from a moving motorized land vehicle.
EXCEPTIONS:
(1) Hunting or taking wildlife by a person from a stationary motorized land vehicle shall not be unlawful so long as the person is in compliance with all other Arkansas State Game and Fish Commission regulations.
PENALTY: $100.00 to $1,000.00.

[firehog]

I would like to give a report on this for the first year of this regulation being in force. I got a report that 12 violators where fined for this practice in Poinset county alone. I didn't see anyone in my area doing this practice the first time in four years.

[firehog]

Still hearing good reports and this is helping the area for sure.

[fish]

It should be illegal to use ATV or any other conveyance to chase or head off deer prused by dogs or not ! You can't hunt here for the ATV riders trying to head off a deer race!:mad:

[firehog]

Fish, they used a aircraft to catch them last year in my area, or so I was told. Don't know if its just a region they have took a keen interest in cracking down on. Course its easy to catch them from the air in my area also, with open fields and small woodlots.