As the topic discribes ...

[Earnhardt fan #1]

We really need to come together and throw out all of the BS that seperates us deerhunters and be a bigger voice ( one voice ). All of us can jion together and change the way the commision sees us as a group,so lets do this and show them we mean BUSINESS

[deerhunter]

This means no bickering,no group disention,No well I hate this type of hunting or that type of hunting. We must agree to not disagree if something like this has a chance. Internal fighting would be the down fall of such an organization.

Agree that we all love this sport of deer hunting and thats the bottom line, otherwise there may come a day soon when our sport will not even resemble what we grew up knowing it to be.

It's gotta be a team effort guys......completely!

If you are seriously interested please speak up.

[DODGEMAN]

Just let me know what I can do.

[Rattle-m-up™]

im in....no more crossbow bashing from me....unless its deerhunter!

[DODGEMAN]

Ok, Steven what is the plan, do we want to have a membership similar to what we had with the Floodway Hunters Association, we had 700 members the first year it was organized. With that many members we were halfway listened to by the Game and Fish. It is true that a group has a bigger voice than just a few people calling and complaining about something. The Assistant Director told me out of his mouth that "the sqeaky wheel gets the greese", so we need to organize, and start sqeaking.

[xring]

I agree,,to make this happen, we must understand that OUR WAY, is not the only way. If we can lose the attitude that only our way is right, this could be the greatest thing ever for all deer hunters in Arkansas. What if; We had a board comprised of say 10 members, 2 from each, NEA--NWA--SWA--SEA--and central Ark. Then One spokesperson for all, I don't know that it could ever be, because that would be ALL deerhunters, Not just archery,,Dog hunters,,Gun, MUzzle loaders, Yes even Xbows,,,(humor) I think we see what a group like this could do for the state,,but could we ACTUALLY unite as one voice for the benifit of all hunters. These 10 members should be as diversified as possible, includeing all types of hunters, I think it is possible, but one other though, it is possible to split what little unity there is, even more, if we are not open to ALL! Xring

[Gooch]

Count me in. I'll do whatever I can. We don't need to wait around to long on getting this started. The sooner the better.
pgooch

[CDay]

I gave this all some thought on the way home last night. I believe this group must support what is best for the deer herd, not just bucks but does and fawns as well. Secondly I look at the mission statement of AFGC and think we need to stay focused on the MAXIMUM ENJOYMENT for all deerhunters and sportsmen in the state. Since we all pretty agree AGFC doesn't follow this maybe we should and then maybe they will follow suit. Maybe if we can stay focused on this concept maybe we won't be as apt to spilt and take side against any method of deerhunting. Under this part of maximum enjoyment we should look at seasons and bag limits to give the most oppuritunities to the every deerhunter in the state with out hurting the deer herd. Also with this group we as group need to make it a primary objective to fight and give our youth every oppuritunity we can get for them to insure the sport that we all so much cherish will be carried on into the future.

These were just three things I could pick out that should be in the mission statement and what this group represent without being bias to any one method of deerhunting.

I am very interested in this and I think most of you already know. I just don't know how to get it started or where to start. But maybe this is were it needs to start first in the mission statement and what this association is going to represent in a unbias way. Maybe once it is decided who we are and what we represent then maybe see who is all interested.

[Tony Harris]

I'm in. I have been pushing this line of thought for over a year to the guys I hunt with and am around on a regular basis. Once things are lined out and folks see that we are serious I believe more will get on board. Maybe the first organized meeting could be advertised in the paper a few times before it happens or maybe Trey would do an small bit on it. However it happens we need to let the public know what we hope to accomplish and like CDay said, our mission statement.

[F B]

Im all for it.

Im out of town so much in my job that I couldnt be on the board or anything like that but Ill help in any other way that I can.

I look at the mission statement of AFGC and think we need to stay focused on the MAXIMUM ENJOYMENT for all deerhunters and sportsmen in the state. I think that should be the main goal as well.

It would take some effort but there is a way to have something for everybody and we just need to put our heads together and come up with it.

[CDay]

After talking to Kenn yesterday and hearing alot of different ideas. I felt that the mission statement should be something that could be easily used. This way if a suggestion comes up concerning deer hunting we all could look and see if it applies to the mission statement. If it doesn't then we as an group should not pursue it.

[xring]

I'm in

[MountainBuck]

WELL, You Know the ole YCB's will do their part!!!!!

[WarblerWatcher]

Hate to play devil's advocate here but

Although far far from an expert on the subject I've had experience in the past trying to organize a couple of statewide organizations, one being a statewide deer hunters organization and know first hand just how tough, if not downright impossible, it is to come up with a workable plan for a SUCCESSFUL organization to bring bowhunters, muzzleloaders, still hunters , and dog hunters under one big statewide umbrella. In fact our surveys at the time showed it was just about an impossible task.

There's simply too much long standing divisiness within our ranks that in all reality will probably not disappear in our lifetimes, if ever, and SUCCESSFUL organizations consist of people who hold basically the same views. We as deer hunters don't, and the truth be known we probably never will.

What may, or may not, work would be to organize independent regional organizations (and/or particular deer zone organizations) and WMA organizations of deer hunters with basically the same views who would be willing to join a Statewide Deer Hunters Coalition and come together on an as needed basis on issues that affect all.

I know from experience that on a local level local or regional organizations can usually get as much or more done for their particular area than can statewide groups for them.

It's not good enough to just form an organization without some realistic expectation of success. And the key word here is not organization fella's, it's SUCCESS! And through personal experience I have doubts about the success of one big statewide organization that includes ALL deer hunters. It's a time consuming costly complicated task to form a statewide organization and not something to be blindly nor emotionally undertaken.

So knowing what little I know about trying to organize deer hunters into one big statewide organization, I believe a Statewide Deer Hunters Coalition of independent regional groups of bowhunters, muzzleloaders, still hunters, and dog hunters would probably have a more realistic possibility of success than trying to bring, and more importantly keep, all these diverse groups together under one umbrella.

All it would take to get the ball rolling would be for a small handful of dedicated deer hunters who have the time to get together and come up with a plan. As I've said, it's a complicated issue, would be time consuming, and in all probability take several such meeting for even this group to come to any kind of consensus.

But whatever happens don't sit around and wait for a statewide organization. If you're concerned about your particular area and there's no group at present representing that area, get out and get one going, and do it today. At least make sure that your particular area and views are heard before you're saddled with more unwanted regulations, like this year.

And by forming an organization for your area TODAY you will be well prepared when the time comes to join a statewide coalition of deer hunting organizations.

Haven't even touched on the legal ramifications of a statewide organization. But suffice it to say there's lots of different ways to go with this thing, to many to discuss in one post. The difficulty will be choosing the one with the greatest chance of long term success. Just my opinion

[F B]

I think you brought up some good points.

I dont know the first thing about putting something like this together but what you said about starting it out on a regional or even WMA or zone basis might be the better way to start.

If you break it down into areas like that youd have a better chance that most of the members would be on the same page about managing their particular area.

Will it work?

[CDay]

WW I see your point but even just having small groups and then showing up at the commissioners meeting this same groups will be against each other and nothing will be done. It is going to take us all to be open minded and unbais of different methods. That is why I believe the mission statement and our purpose should first finalized so anyone joining knows upfront what we support and what we stand for. That way anything that comes up can be compared to this mission statement to see if it fits in.

[WarblerWatcher]

Originally posted by CDay:
WW I see your point but even just having small groups and then showing up at the commissioners meeting this same groups will be against each other and nothing will be done. Clyde I didn't mean to JUST have small groups but regional and other groups who were MEMBERS of a statewide coalition. Regional groups can take care of smaller localized problems while the statewide coalition can take care of problems that affect us all and also render assistance to any regional group that may need the help.

We can't fool ourselves into thinking that most gun hunters are gonna fight for a longer bow season or that most bow hunters are gonna fight for a longer dog season, and so on. If that were the case we would have had an all inclusive statewide deer hunting organization years ago because I can assure you we are not the first group to kick this issue around.

To be successful each group is gonna have to ultimately take care of it's own, except on issues that directly affect all hunters. That's where a statewide coalition would come in.

That's why I favor independent regional and local groups on more localized issues, but all belonging to a statewide deer hunting coalition ready to go to bat on statewide issues that affect us all. JMO

[CDay]

Now I see what you are getting at. Like up here in northeast Arkansas where our seasons and baglimits are different than the rest of the state. But issue like issue that effect all of state wide like how public land is managed, the baiting issue, shortening of archery season. We would have to come together as one group since this issues affect all of us. Now it does make sense.

[Tony Harris]

If the responses to the survey Kenn spoke of are any indication our main problem may be in simply getting all deer hunters to realize IT IS THEIR PROBLEM not just someone elses in another part of the state.

I read an article in the Landowners association magaine today that brought up the fact that hunters are not even close to a majority anywhere but are about equal with anti-hunters. The article went on to say that left about 80% non-hunters who vote. The main difference is that the anti-hunters are very organized and very vocal, well versed in their objectives and have greater access to the main stream media which the non-hunters watch. If we don't get 'together' we may see this hunting tradition fade away alot quicker than we even thought.

I would think in the face of such possiblities that the state wildlife agencies would be trying to help align all hunters together. The bottom line on this one is if we ALL don't work together we will ALL fail.

[Earnhardt fan #1]

UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL

[xring]

Well said Tony, I don't have the answers, but I would urge caution, We must not cause a larger division in our ranks, I assure you that a percentage of the hunters out there are "Trophy" hunters, also education of the hunters concerning our goals will be an important part of gaining unity. I am not an organizer, Anyone who has seen my reloading room can testify to that, but I will give my support to the ones who are the organizers, and do what I can to make our voices heard, if not agreed to by the AG@F.

[deerhunter]

Maybe we need to have some type of meeting where these issues can be discussed and maybe this thing can atleast get some feet under it. I dont mean get off and running right now but atleast get something started in the right direction.

We need to be serious about this. We can all get on here and talk back and forth about it but untill we actually have something going it's just that,all talk.

Honestly,you guys know as well as I that if we dont get this started before hunting season it will be near impossible to get anything done untill next year.

[Earnhardt fan #1]

He's right fella's I'm planning on saying some things to my Archery club shoot in july and guys I work with about it.

[xring]

I mentioned this idea to a couple of friends of mine who are serious hunters, they seemed to like the idea of joining forces to better fight the Anti's and get the message to the AG@F that whats best for the majority rules,,,I believe a sit down discussion at some centrally located location would be in order, whatta ya think?

[SS]

Guys
Perhaps you shouldn't look any further than this group here. With some word of mouth I could easily see Ar deer hunting having at least a couple thousand vioces. I didn't look at how many visitors access each week, but its quite a few.

[dspeakes]

I will be willing to help any way I can. We need to get this going as soon as possible to make sure that we have a strong organization before next year's meetings.

[Tony Harris]

What about around the end of July? That would give a little time to set schedules and maybe recruit more interest.

[Rattle-m-up™]

that sounds good, but i would think no later, school starts up in august....

[rjet]

Count me in, will help in any way possible.

[Marcus]

I hate to be pessimistic and usually stay out of discussions like this but; if you think an organization such as this will fly… Well, you’re staring down the barrel of a .45.

When deer hunting with dogs was outlawed there was an Arkansas Dog Hunters Association formed. How many of you joined up and supported them? None is my guess. In fact, I would say 75% of you support the ban. It didn’t seem to bother you that the Game & Fish was cutting a hunting opportunity then.

Now that it has come to the duck hunters, bow hunters, muzzle loaders, rifle hunters and to the bag limits all hell has broke loose. I have seen more people complain about lost hunting opportunities than ever before. All I hear on this board is….. We have to join together to fight the antis, we have to be unified to get bow season lengths back,…….. yada, yada, yada. Where were you 3 years ago?

I don’t own a deer dog but, I do like to coon hunt. Therefore, I support all hound hunting activities. Now, when it comes to deer hunting I am an avid bowhunter and don’t muzzle load hunt. How many of you die hard muzzle load hunters supported the ban on deer dogs? Now you want me to join forces with you to get your season back? Hey, that was an extra weekend for me to bowhunt…..

The same goes for all the other shortened seasons. I will fight for what “I” want because, I’ll bet when it comes down to it, your little “MAXIMUM ENJOYMENT” mission statement will not apply to some of my wants. Maximum enjoyment to me means no hunting bans or shortened seasons of any kind. If you think you can put an organization like that together you are dreaming. Deer hunting has become more than a hobby or past time. It is a big money industry now and there are way to many passionate people to ever get them all to agree.

[rjet]

Marcus,
Unfortunantly we cannot go back in time 3 years. Chances of this thing taking off are slim and none, but it is well worth the effort. From past reading fom members it seems to me that the majority on here are for protecting all hunting, including dogs wether they personally hate em or not. As has been stated many times there aint a chance in hell of everybody agreeing on everything. If we try and fail at least a shot was given and three years from now we can at least say we tried. I wish you would try and approach this with an open mind and give it some time for now before making a decision. I am sure your input would be appreciated. If it ever does get organized and you dont like the direction then decide not to join.

[Tony Harris]

Marcus,
You are right about our mentality when dog hunting was banned. Most of the time if it doesn't effect us directly we will stand on the sidelines and watch, which is what I did with the dog hunting ban. I would like to think I have grown a little smarter since that time. Now I understand that what effects one will most likely, sooner or later effect all. It will be an uphill struggle to get this going and see it continue but I would rather try to fight than to roll over and give them a still target to kick at.

Public education, diplomacy, compromise when you have no other choice and grit is what we need now.

[Marcus]

rjet & Tony,

You are right, we can't go back three years. What is done is done.

I plan on watching to see where this goes. If it proves to be an origanization that supports all forms of hunting, then I will join and lend a helping hand. I just don't see it happening.

[Earnhardt fan #1]

This organization is for DEER HUNTERS not deer dogs guns ,muzzzle or what ever its all of us DEER HUNTERS joining together to help the whole not the piece! We have to get that across to people like your self Marcus We're for DEER and DEER hunting not your side against their side of the same coin .Just plan and simple Deer hunting .I know its not that easy but thats what has to be said .

[CDay]

This organization will have to be open minded about all aspects of deer hunting. The biggest reason for forming this organization is to fight for at least what we have and not to loose anymore oppuritunities.

But also with having such a organization AGFC might be more apt to release data and information, that they are currently with holding to each of us individually.

[Earnhardt fan #1]

yep !!!

If they would release it to show us whythey do some of the things they do we might support them ....some what!

[Bowcrazy]

Im in and will help as much as I can.

[firehog]

A organization such as this, should not be against any form or method of deer hunting. I realize this is a tough issue when season length and bag limits are set. Or methods of hunting is concern. Over the years, I have never been in favor of shortening any methods days afield. Wether I agreed or not. Why cause I know what goes around comes around. Let me take that back, I was against a longer hunt in zone 4&5 for gun cause there was no data. But I could set my persoanl issues aside if the data showed it. Its that simple. You win some you loss some. Next time you might win, but without a group your chances are slim. I don't like people who can't get their own personal agendas out and leave the group, because of it. We all have different opinions on the issues, but if you stay with the issues your all are for, you have a better chance of winning the arguement. I don't see why you couldn't set down, and put issues to a vote and go with the majority. I don't claim to know the issue on setting season lengths or limits, all I can say is what I see in my area. So really for me to argue a season length would be pointless. When I griped about losing some bow season, I was pissed cause they had no data to back their claim. Look I'll go with what the data says, and I'll bitch to I'm blue in the face, about making regs without data. I don't think there's a hunter on here, that would disagree. Sure I know two years ago there was some bowhunters on here griping about gun season, and I believe they saw what goes around comes around, no one should gripe about cutting a season just to be griping. But we should gripe about any decission the commission makes just cause they THINK it will help. Data is key. And we should push that. I believe right now there's strong opinion after all the meetings and input from hunters across state, and then see regs that came out of the blue without discussion and without data. Thats the fight, thats where we feel helpless. Its bullshit for that to happen, and hunters have no voice. Who ever made the comment about it won't work cause some fought for shorter seasons, or didn't support dog hunting, that shouldn't happen as a organization, cause we should support what the data shows, there was no data on either issue. We have a bunch of folks making regs on what they THINK is right, or what their buddies tell them. We should push hard for the AGFC to make policy on what their biologist say, and the data. If you could show me where corn feeding hurt deer in late season, I would be for shutting it down. No one on here wants to hurt the deer, thats our resource. We also should push for university studies on certain issues, at least get a unbias study.

[CDay]

The biggest thing is to support and keep AGFC within check with its own mission statement. We need a strong voice to insure data is used. Also I believe with a strong organization AGFC might be more apt to publish data and make more of it public. I also feel as a regional chapter we need to work with our regional biogolist in collecting data. If after reviewing data and seeing that something needs to be cut to benifit the deer herd first then we will be in support of it. But in the same extent we will have to inform the public about this information so the know why. This is the number one problem today no one has the answer to WHY for all of the changes.

[firehog]

One thing I would like to find out, and I don't hunt there, and that is the sunken lands. What could a organization do to make that a better place. I hear its over hunted and dangerous during the gun season. Not enough land out of water, just alot of gripes. I don't know, have no clue, but it might be worth looking into down the road.

[DODGEMAN]

Firehog, I have hunted there all my life, and I was there on the past gun hunts, it does have several hunters, and there may be places that there are too many but it ain't bad. As for hunting ground, unless the St. Francis is real high there is plenty of ground. I was the president of a local hunter group in this area for about 7 years, we mainly worked on improving this area. At one time we had 750 members, and the main problem we had is that the Game and Fish only wanted to manage the area for ducks. Me and Robert Zachary went round and round about it.

[firehog]

Dodgeman, do you live in this area? NE Ark.

[DODGEMAN]

Yea I live down here in Lepanto, close to deerhunter, and Sam Shinalt, the EMT you know.

[DODGEMAN]

Firehog must have had to go on a fire run.

[WarblerWatcher]

Firehog ain't on no fire run Dodge, he tricked you into tellin' him you was one of them NEAB and then put you on his ignore list! graemlins/thumb.gif graemlins/thumb.gif graemlins/thumb.gif

[DODGEMAN]

We're a proud group up here and I have said on several posts that I am from the brighter side of the state, and mentioned Lepanto, several times. When yall get ready to move over to the bright side give me a call.

[Rattle-m-up™]

Originally posted by DODGEMAN:
We're a proud group up here and I have said on several posts that I am from the brighter side of the state, and mentioned Lepanto, several times. When yall get ready to move over to the bright side give me a call. if its so great why is everyone leaving and coming to this side of the state? tongue.gif

[kw]

Count me in. Let me know what i can do.

[firehog]

KW, and Dodgeman, we need a core of guys to show up at the meeting and get this kicked off. Gonna need help with the paper work and make sure we file right with the state and IRS.